Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Rutger on 07-16-08
I gather you wrote this piece to entertain your wealthy readers. (smile) The real future- millions more Americans losing jobs. Purchasing fuel and essential staples will become ever more impossible, The USD will continue to lose value..Big pain before the big gain? Anyone paying attention sees increasing movement toward third world totalitarianism. The military industrial/pharmaceutical corporations to run slave labor camps with a select inner circle living the good life. (See China Model) The millionaires with sense are in Swiss Francs and commodities. The middle class is in grave trouble, drowning. Conclusion, big pain, big breakdown leading to third world banana boat.
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By JB on 07-17-08
We won’t see $5 gas this year. Already, many foreign governments are either severely reducing or eliminating gasoline subsidies for their citizens - including China - resulting in reduced demand. There will be a market correction, just like the one that happened after the 1980 jump in oil price, although we will not see gas prices go back to those levels. Rest assured, the price of gas will fall. The only reason there are calls for more oil drilling to occur is that there is a “perceived” shortage, mostly driven by speculation driving the price of oil to a artificially high level. We have plenty of crude - there are no local market shortages, no long lines at the pump. If there was a shortage of crude, we would definetely know it - it would be a lot more painful to buy gasoline than just paying more for it.
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By $5+ on 07-17-08
It’s that sort of blind denial that’s gotten us here in the first place. An unwillingness to meet the problems head on… a gut wrenching fear of change. Fear of transitioning from world leader to has-been. Empires falls - we’re witnessing it first hand.
There will be $5 gas because the speculators, big oil and big politics want it to be that and more because they get even more rich.
The symptoms are entrenched, the disease is visible to the naked eye, but the US won’t go see the doctor because they are more interested in what’s happening with Brangelina’s babies. The government wants it that way. Duh.
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By Roark on 07-17-08
Rutger and 5+, you both are wrong factually and morally. Businesses have every right to make a profit. Man should never apologize for the wealth he gains. It is only the moochers and the have nots who hate men for their success. Men have every right to make as much money as they can. Man is in end in himself. There is no such thing as stagnant wealth or money supply, either. I am disgusted by those who condemn men for living for their own values and their own lives and not as pawns in the altruistic cave of self sacrifice for the collective good or some other selfless cause. No longer should businessman apologize for their success or kiss the feet of the anti-man collectivist altar which has infested Obama and the left, too many Republicans, and Academia. “Big Pharma” or “Big Business” is not the problem, the problem are the brain dead socialist intellectuals who infest America and the government with their explicit philosophy of making men a sacrificial animal. Burn down the peace sign and erect the dollar sign in its place. http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=13009
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By JB on 07-17-08
Blind denial? History repeats itself, especially in the commodities markets. You can only drive the price of gas up so far - eventually people stop buying it. You can only drive the price up so far before demand falls off. People always find ways to cut back. There’s only so much juice in an orange - eventually, the juice is all gone. Big oil can charge whatever they want to for gas - but they are not stupid; they will only raise it so far before people cut back on buying it. Its already having an effect - or don’t you read the news?
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By John on 07-17-08
Roark—If you are such an island unto yourself—you need to stop being such a hypocrite and actually put your money where your mouth is. The roads you drive in Montana are heavily subsidized by Americans who live in other places and who will never use the roads you drive on every day. If you are such a lone individualist—then stop being such a mooch on driving on the public’s roads. Any Montanan who drives on a public highway is by the very act of driving on that federally-funded highway mooching off of taxpayers who paid the majority share of that road. If you really want to live in your Ayn Rand utopia (actually it will be a hell I promise) you need to start paying about $25 in tolls every time you drive your car beyond the immediate boundaries of your little selfish individualist hell hole. Just send your $25 (it will be more if you want to drive to Missoula or Spokane or elsewhere) to the Federal Highway Administration. You can attach a note saying that you don’t want to be a burden on taxpayers in other parts of the country who are subsidizing your road. If you don’t do this—then you are a complete and utter fraud. You have to walk the walk you loser and not just ramble on about your inane and completely bankrupt and historically corrupt philosophies. I bet you won’t though—because you are probably the biggest moocher of them all. Hard-right Repubs tend to be the biggest moochers of the bunch. Look at Dick Cheney. They literally get drunk at the public trough every night.
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By Roark'sGospelLover on 07-17-08
Haven’t heard from you for a while. Good to see you are still up to supply the LOLZ:)
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By Roark on 07-18-08
JOHN said,“you need to stop being such a hypocrite and actually put your money where your mouth is. The roads you drive in Montana are heavily subsidized by Americans who live in other places and who will never use the roads you drive on every day.“ —-HOW exactly am I being a hypocrite in this context?
JOHN said,“If you are such a lone individualist—then stop being such a mooch on driving on the public’s roads.“ —-96% percent of the roads are owned by the government. One can be an individualist and still have to drive on gov’t. owned roads, because there is no getting around them. You are confusing a rational individualist, like myself, with an anarchist or a conspiratorial right winger. What’s more a rational individualist doesn’t evade the current state of gov’t policy, he tries to change it from within.
JOHN said,“Any Montanan who drives on a public highway is by the very act of driving on that federally-funded highway mooching off of taxpayers who paid the majority share of that road.“ —-You are confusing concepts here, again. A driver who has to use government owned roads subsidized by the taxpayer (including himself) is not mooching off the taxpayer by the simple fact that he is forced to pay for the roads he drives on himself, by the government. Mooching is a willfull act of coercion, whereas in government law there is no choice.
JOHN said,“If you really want to live in your Ayn Rand utopia (actually it will be a hell I promise) you need to start paying about $25 in tolls every time you drive your car beyond the immediate boundaries of your little selfish individualist hell hole. Just send your $25 (it will be more if you want to drive to Missoula or Spokane or elsewhere) to the Federal Highway Administration.“ —-And how exactly did you come to this conclusion?
JOHN said,“You can attach a note saying that you don’t want to be a burden on taxpayers in other parts of the country who are subsidizing your road. If you don’t do this—then you are a complete and utter fraud.“ —-Wrong again. A rational individualist, or anyone with a modicum of common sense, understands that if you do not pay your taxes via the current tax code and obey the law, that you will end up fined and/or in jail. A fraud is one who willingly lies. Please tell me how I am a fraud. (it’s hard to follow your (il)logic.
JOHN said,“You have to walk the walk you loser and not just ramble on about your inane and completely bankrupt and historically corrupt philosophies.“ —-The best way to be an agent for liberty and reason is to stand as an exemplar of those idea’s. Also, one can contact their elected rep’s and let them know when they are in err and what the correct and objective solution is. Also, it is in man’s best interest to honor reality, facts, and truth. I do all of the above.
JOHN said,“you are probably the biggest moocher of them all.“ —-Personal attacks completely divorced from reality is how a coward reacts to those who disagree with him.
JOHN said,“Hard-right Repubs tend to be the biggest moochers of the bunch.“ —-Wow, how many times can you be wrong in one paragraph?
Roark’sGospelLOver said,“Haven’t heard from you for a while. Good to see you are still up to supply the LOLZ:)“ —-The feelings mutual.
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By John on 07-19-08
Here’s the facts Roark: Montana gets back twice as much money for roads from the federal government (taxpayers in other parts of the country) than we put in. Our roads are already subsidized to the tune of 2 - 1. If you privatize the road system (as you would have to if you follow through with your Objectivist self-worship idealogy) you will see a massive increase in the cost of driving. For instance, when electricity was deregulated by a completely foolish Republican Legislature, energy prices went up nearly 50%. Roads are the kind of thing that aren’t very practical for competition. Whoever “Owns” the road to your house will have pretty much a monopoly on pricing. If you don’t like the price what are you going to do—take another road? As you can see, the idea that self-worship and the complete and utter alienation of community over the individual will lead to a society that breaks down very quickly. Your Ayn Rand utopia will quickly become a bitter conflagration of super-inflated SELF’s all eating and stopping on the others SELF’s in pursuit of their self adulation and worship. Not only is Objectivism as a philosophy completely ridiculous and unrealistis. It is dangerous. Allen Greenspan was a big Objectivist in college and look what a complete and utter failure he has proven to be.
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By Roark on 07-19-08
JOHN said,“If you privatize the road system (as you would have to if you follow through with your Objectivist self-worship idealogy) you will see a massive increase in the cost of driving.“ —-How so?-what is your evidence for such a claim? BTW, Objectivist’s don’t “self-worship” they adhere to reason and reality. They realize the positive value of self esteem based on mans heroic nature and his adherence to a morality of rational egoism. May I recommend reading “The Art of Living Consciously” by Nathaniel Branden.
JOHN said,“For instance, when electricity was deregulated by a completely foolish Republican Legislature, energy prices went up nearly 50%.“ —-Actually electric utilities were not in fact truly deregulated. That is a myth. They were somewhat deregulated. In a fully deregulated laissez-faire utilities energy market prices would fall dramatically by the simple rules of the competitive market (I refer you to Henry Hazlett’s “Economics in One Lesson). And even IF prices did not drop, so what. Energy companies are privately held business’s, just like any large corporation or small local business, they have a right to charge what they wish for their goods and services. They decide what rates they will charge, they don’t owe anyone energy, or even affordable energy if they do not wish to. Nobody has a right to someone else’s life or business functions. You are not entitled to cheap energy provided by a private company, just as nobody is entitled to come into your house and take your food without your invitation and permission. Energy companies supply energy for their own benefit and goals. What’s more, energy would be a lot more affordable without all the taxes, regulations and red tape that Americans have to deal with currently, because money that is spent to pay for someones welfare or the peace corps could have been money used to pay utilities, etc.
JOHN said,“As you can see, the idea that self-worship and the complete and utter alienation of community over the individual will lead to a society that breaks down very quickly” —-Wrong again. Let me give you a large scale example of your errant thinking: NORTH KOREA is about complete negation of the individual for the “collective”. The USA on the other hand is the most individualist nation in the world (though it is far from what it should be thanks to the altruistic intellectuals). Now you tell me, which nation has a higher standard of living? The only “community” which has broken down are the collectivist nations which scourge much of the world, and yes that includes most of Europe. (see Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”)
JOHN said,“Your Ayn Rand utopia will quickly become a bitter conflagration of super-inflated SELF’s all eating and stopping on the others SELF’s in pursuit of their self adulation and worship.“ —-Individualism is not about stepping on others or acting like a brute. You obviously have no knowledge of Objectivist ethics or rational ethical individualism. May I recommend “Unrugged Individualism” by David Kelley. An excellent book that will help you to understand concepts you know so little about.
JOHN said,“Not only is Objectivism as a philosophy completely ridiculous and unrealistis. It is dangerous.“ —-“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.“-Ayn Rand. John, could you explain to me how Objectivism is “dangerous” and “unrealistic”?
JOHN said,“Allen Greenspan was a big Objectivist in college and look what a complete and utter failure he has proven to be.“ —-Allen Greenspan WAS an Objectivist. WAS. He fell away from the Objectivist philosophy a long time ago.-before he began his career at the Federal Reserve. And yes, he was a BIG failure, but that is not due to his former association with the Objectivist philosophy, but rather his movement away from it into Keynesian economics.
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By John on 07-19-08
To compare those who believe in a basic level of cooperation for an effective society to North Korea is simply ridiculous. North Korea is not a democracy. It is a totalitarian state that feeds the dictator (who actually adheres to the Objectivist belief in the heroic self. Damn everyone else—Kim Il’s got HIS).
Tell me one society that successfully lives under an Objectivist idealogy? You will say none. So that makes it merely an unrealistic and caustic philosophy.
The reality is that your notion of europe as failing states is completely and utterly false. You must get out more.
Tell me one… even one measure of societal success that the United States excels in over most modern european nations. Americans like to run around saying they are the best in the world, but the reality is this:
1) Health care expenses nearly double what europeans pay
2) Infant mortality rate in the US is sligthly higher than many third world countries
3) Economic growth and GDP—lagging far behind the Europeans
4) Education levels + quality and adoption of technology—America lagging FAR FAR behind the Europreans
5) and I could go on and on.
Tell me - and cite the specifics not just your “gut” American propoganda even one measurement that American is number 1 in the world at except for military spending.
So homework: Tell me one successful nation that has embraced Objectivist ideals ( the United States is not an Objectivist nation. Only a few intellectual wackos sitting around in coffee shops theorizing about Ayn Rands self-worship do not qualify)
And tell me one fully cited measurement of American excellence that does not include our spending on the military.
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By Roark on 07-19-08
JOHN said,“To compare those who believe in a basic level of cooperation for an effective society to North Korea is simply ridiculous.“ —-No it’s not. First of all, we need to establish definitions. What do you consider a “basic level of cooperation”?-what is your standard for such a measurement? It’s actually not ridiculous to compare the two, because at root both NK and those whom you say want a “basic level of cooperation” hold man as a pawn for the state or the collective. Man is therefore not an end in himself, but a slave to another’s “needs” or “wants”. North Korea, as I stated earlier, is an extreme example of the ideaology that man has no identity or freedom outside of a collective. We are talking only of matters of degree, but the underlying principle is unchanged.
JOHN said,“North Korea is not a democracy.“
You’re right, they are not a democracy, at least not in the governmental sense, however the philosophy espoused by KJI is fully predicated on the anihilation of the individual for the masses. In NK it is the total denial of a man’s right to his own life and his servitude for others that equates it with democracy and its precepts, i.e. might makes right.- or as you would say a “basic level of cooperation” (at the point of a gun, mind you).
JOHN said,“who actually adheres to the Objectivist belief in the heroic self.“ —-Wrong again. Objectivism is completely at odds with men who seek to be dictators and tyrants and who desire to violate anothers right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You are confusing rational individualism with nihilism. “The notion that a dictatorship can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn remnant of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship; nobody wins—except the ruling clique.“-AR
JOHN said,“Tell me one society that successfully lives under an Objectivist idealogy?“
Of course there is none. Objectivism is a philosophy for living based on reason and reality. Like liberty, It is a continual process to promote the ideas of Objectivism in society, but more importantly it is crucial for the individual to live by them and to understand them. The USA is by far the closest any nation has come to embracing an Objectivist ideaology. Just because no nation has embraced a fully Objectivist society doesn’t make it impossible.
JOHN said,“The reality is that your notion of europe as failing states is completely and utterly false.“ —-I consider failing as super high tax rates, government regulation over every facet of business, government intrusion into personal liberty, government appeasement of the enemy and its embrace of political correctness, altruism, and in general making the state supreme and the individual a begging serf, etc. Yes, European governments have indeed failed.
JOHN said,“1) Health care expenses nearly double what europeans pay” —-Incorrect, through massive tax rates the europeans pay more for their healthcare, not to mention the long waiting lists to be seen, the approved lists of those who qualify for certain operations, and the substandard care. And then there is the whole arena where the medical professionals are hog-tied to the state.
“2) Infant mortality rate in the US is sligthly higher than many third world countries “ —-where is your evidence?
“3) Economic growth and GDP—lagging far behind the Europeans “ —-show me the chart.
“4) Education levels + quality and adoption of technology—America lagging FAR FAR behind the Europreans” —-show me the evidence.
JOHN said,“Tell me - and cite the specifics not just your “gut” American propoganda even one measurement that American is number 1 in the world at except for military spending.“ —-I’ll name the most important one on which ALL the other spheres are predicated; Individual freedom and liberty. To be sure America is a mess, due to her embrace of socialism and altruism, but name me one nation where an individual has as much freedom and liberty from government control or anarchy.
As much as I like debating, this issue has gone off topic.
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By sharon krumland on 08-05-08
I find S.Walker’s article very interesting. I was commenting to my spouse the very day before I read the Beacon about the high price of gas in Kalispell. We were in Missola last sat. and gas was 3.99 for regular. I think we do need an investigation. It looks like gas gouging to me!Also Kalispell is taking advantage of the tourist season.I have only lived here a year,and I think I see the whole picture.You go-girl!
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By Roark on 08-05-08
“I think we do need an investigation.“ —-into what?
“It looks like gas gouging to me!“ —-WHAT do you define as gas gouging, and WHY do you cal it that. AT what price is gas “acceptable” in your terms?
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By skrumland on 08-05-08
I just don’t understand why some service stations can charge more than others?I did see where the price has gone down at some stations to 3.99 (this a.m.} in Kalispell. Isn’t this a great country because we can express ourselves to one another without getting thrown into prison ?God bless America!!
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Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Rutger on 07-16-08
I gather you wrote this piece to entertain your wealthy readers. (smile) The real future- millions more Americans losing jobs. Purchasing fuel and essential staples will become ever more impossible, The USD will continue to lose value..Big pain before the big gain? Anyone paying attention sees increasing movement toward third world totalitarianism. The military industrial/pharmaceutical corporations to run slave labor camps with a select inner circle living the good life. (See China Model) The millionaires with sense are in Swiss Francs and commodities. The middle class is in grave trouble, drowning. Conclusion, big pain, big breakdown leading to third world banana boat.
By JB on 07-17-08
We won’t see $5 gas this year. Already, many foreign governments are either severely reducing or eliminating gasoline subsidies for their citizens - including China - resulting in reduced demand. There will be a market correction, just like the one that happened after the 1980 jump in oil price, although we will not see gas prices go back to those levels. Rest assured, the price of gas will fall. The only reason there are calls for more oil drilling to occur is that there is a “perceived” shortage, mostly driven by speculation driving the price of oil to a artificially high level. We have plenty of crude - there are no local market shortages, no long lines at the pump. If there was a shortage of crude, we would definetely know it - it would be a lot more painful to buy gasoline than just paying more for it.
By $5+ on 07-17-08
It’s that sort of blind denial that’s gotten us here in the first place. An unwillingness to meet the problems head on… a gut wrenching fear of change. Fear of transitioning from world leader to has-been. Empires falls - we’re witnessing it first hand.
There will be $5 gas because the speculators, big oil and big politics want it to be that and more because they get even more rich.
The symptoms are entrenched, the disease is visible to the naked eye, but the US won’t go see the doctor because they are more interested in what’s happening with Brangelina’s babies. The government wants it that way. Duh.
By Roark on 07-17-08
Rutger and 5+, you both are wrong factually and morally. Businesses have every right to make a profit. Man should never apologize for the wealth he gains. It is only the moochers and the have nots who hate men for their success. Men have every right to make as much money as they can. Man is in end in himself. There is no such thing as stagnant wealth or money supply, either. I am disgusted by those who condemn men for living for their own values and their own lives and not as pawns in the altruistic cave of self sacrifice for the collective good or some other selfless cause. No longer should businessman apologize for their success or kiss the feet of the anti-man collectivist altar which has infested Obama and the left, too many Republicans, and Academia. “Big Pharma” or “Big Business” is not the problem, the problem are the brain dead socialist intellectuals who infest America and the government with their explicit philosophy of making men a sacrificial animal. Burn down the peace sign and erect the dollar sign in its place. http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=13009
By JB on 07-17-08
Blind denial? History repeats itself, especially in the commodities markets. You can only drive the price of gas up so far - eventually people stop buying it. You can only drive the price up so far before demand falls off. People always find ways to cut back. There’s only so much juice in an orange - eventually, the juice is all gone. Big oil can charge whatever they want to for gas - but they are not stupid; they will only raise it so far before people cut back on buying it. Its already having an effect - or don’t you read the news?
By John on 07-17-08
Roark—If you are such an island unto yourself—you need to stop being such a hypocrite and actually put your money where your mouth is. The roads you drive in Montana are heavily subsidized by Americans who live in other places and who will never use the roads you drive on every day. If you are such a lone individualist—then stop being such a mooch on driving on the public’s roads. Any Montanan who drives on a public highway is by the very act of driving on that federally-funded highway mooching off of taxpayers who paid the majority share of that road. If you really want to live in your Ayn Rand utopia (actually it will be a hell I promise) you need to start paying about $25 in tolls every time you drive your car beyond the immediate boundaries of your little selfish individualist hell hole. Just send your $25 (it will be more if you want to drive to Missoula or Spokane or elsewhere) to the Federal Highway Administration. You can attach a note saying that you don’t want to be a burden on taxpayers in other parts of the country who are subsidizing your road. If you don’t do this—then you are a complete and utter fraud. You have to walk the walk you loser and not just ramble on about your inane and completely bankrupt and historically corrupt philosophies. I bet you won’t though—because you are probably the biggest moocher of them all. Hard-right Repubs tend to be the biggest moochers of the bunch. Look at Dick Cheney. They literally get drunk at the public trough every night.
By Roark'sGospelLover on 07-17-08
Haven’t heard from you for a while. Good to see you are still up to supply the LOLZ:)
By Roark on 07-18-08
JOHN said,“you need to stop being such a hypocrite and actually put your money where your mouth is. The roads you drive in Montana are heavily subsidized by Americans who live in other places and who will never use the roads you drive on every day.“
—-HOW exactly am I being a hypocrite in this context?
JOHN said,“If you are such a lone individualist—then stop being such a mooch on driving on the public’s roads.“
—-96% percent of the roads are owned by the government. One can be an individualist and still have to drive on gov’t. owned roads, because there is no getting around them. You are confusing a rational individualist, like myself, with an anarchist or a conspiratorial right winger. What’s more a rational individualist doesn’t evade the current state of gov’t policy, he tries to change it from within.
JOHN said,“Any Montanan who drives on a public highway is by the very act of driving on that federally-funded highway mooching off of taxpayers who paid the majority share of that road.“
—-You are confusing concepts here, again. A driver who has to use government owned roads subsidized by the taxpayer (including himself) is not mooching off the taxpayer by the simple fact that he is forced to pay for the roads he drives on himself, by the government. Mooching is a willfull act of coercion, whereas in government law there is no choice.
JOHN said,“If you really want to live in your Ayn Rand utopia (actually it will be a hell I promise) you need to start paying about $25 in tolls every time you drive your car beyond the immediate boundaries of your little selfish individualist hell hole. Just send your $25 (it will be more if you want to drive to Missoula or Spokane or elsewhere) to the Federal Highway Administration.“
—-And how exactly did you come to this conclusion?
JOHN said,“You can attach a note saying that you don’t want to be a burden on taxpayers in other parts of the country who are subsidizing your road. If you don’t do this—then you are a complete and utter fraud.“
—-Wrong again. A rational individualist, or anyone with a modicum of common sense, understands that if you do not pay your taxes via the current tax code and obey the law, that you will end up fined and/or in jail. A fraud is one who willingly lies. Please tell me how I am a fraud. (it’s hard to follow your (il)logic.
JOHN said,“You have to walk the walk you loser and not just ramble on about your inane and completely bankrupt and historically corrupt philosophies.“
—-The best way to be an agent for liberty and reason is to stand as an exemplar of those idea’s. Also, one can contact their elected rep’s and let them know when they are in err and what the correct and objective solution is. Also, it is in man’s best interest to honor reality, facts, and truth. I do all of the above.
JOHN said,“you are probably the biggest moocher of them all.“
—-Personal attacks completely divorced from reality is how a coward reacts to those who disagree with him.
JOHN said,“Hard-right Repubs tend to be the biggest moochers of the bunch.“
—-Wow, how many times can you be wrong in one paragraph?
Roark’sGospelLOver said,“Haven’t heard from you for a while. Good to see you are still up to supply the LOLZ:)“
—-The feelings mutual.
By John on 07-19-08
Here’s the facts Roark: Montana gets back twice as much money for roads from the federal government (taxpayers in other parts of the country) than we put in. Our roads are already subsidized to the tune of 2 - 1. If you privatize the road system (as you would have to if you follow through with your Objectivist self-worship idealogy) you will see a massive increase in the cost of driving. For instance, when electricity was deregulated by a completely foolish Republican Legislature, energy prices went up nearly 50%. Roads are the kind of thing that aren’t very practical for competition. Whoever “Owns” the road to your house will have pretty much a monopoly on pricing. If you don’t like the price what are you going to do—take another road? As you can see, the idea that self-worship and the complete and utter alienation of community over the individual will lead to a society that breaks down very quickly. Your Ayn Rand utopia will quickly become a bitter conflagration of super-inflated SELF’s all eating and stopping on the others SELF’s in pursuit of their self adulation and worship. Not only is Objectivism as a philosophy completely ridiculous and unrealistis. It is dangerous. Allen Greenspan was a big Objectivist in college and look what a complete and utter failure he has proven to be.
By Roark on 07-19-08
JOHN said,“If you privatize the road system (as you would have to if you follow through with your Objectivist self-worship idealogy) you will see a massive increase in the cost of driving.“
—-How so?-what is your evidence for such a claim? BTW, Objectivist’s don’t “self-worship” they adhere to reason and reality. They realize the positive value of self esteem based on mans heroic nature and his adherence to a morality of rational egoism. May I recommend reading “The Art of Living Consciously” by Nathaniel Branden.
JOHN said,“For instance, when electricity was deregulated by a completely foolish Republican Legislature, energy prices went up nearly 50%.“
—-Actually electric utilities were not in fact truly deregulated. That is a myth. They were somewhat deregulated. In a fully deregulated laissez-faire utilities energy market prices would fall dramatically by the simple rules of the competitive market (I refer you to Henry Hazlett’s “Economics in One Lesson). And even IF prices did not drop, so what. Energy companies are privately held business’s, just like any large corporation or small local business, they have a right to charge what they wish for their goods and services. They decide what rates they will charge, they don’t owe anyone energy, or even affordable energy if they do not wish to. Nobody has a right to someone else’s life or business functions. You are not entitled to cheap energy provided by a private company, just as nobody is entitled to come into your house and take your food without your invitation and permission. Energy companies supply energy for their own benefit and goals. What’s more, energy would be a lot more affordable without all the taxes, regulations and red tape that Americans have to deal with currently, because money that is spent to pay for someones welfare or the peace corps could have been money used to pay utilities, etc.
JOHN said,“As you can see, the idea that self-worship and the complete and utter alienation of community over the individual will lead to a society that breaks down very quickly”
—-Wrong again. Let me give you a large scale example of your errant thinking: NORTH KOREA is about complete negation of the individual for the “collective”. The USA on the other hand is the most individualist nation in the world (though it is far from what it should be thanks to the altruistic intellectuals). Now you tell me, which nation has a higher standard of living? The only “community” which has broken down are the collectivist nations which scourge much of the world, and yes that includes most of Europe. (see Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”)
JOHN said,“Your Ayn Rand utopia will quickly become a bitter conflagration of super-inflated SELF’s all eating and stopping on the others SELF’s in pursuit of their self adulation and worship.“
—-Individualism is not about stepping on others or acting like a brute. You obviously have no knowledge of Objectivist ethics or rational ethical individualism. May I recommend “Unrugged Individualism” by David Kelley. An excellent book that will help you to understand concepts you know so little about.
JOHN said,“Not only is Objectivism as a philosophy completely ridiculous and unrealistis. It is dangerous.“
—-“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.“-Ayn Rand. John, could you explain to me how Objectivism is “dangerous” and “unrealistic”?
JOHN said,“Allen Greenspan was a big Objectivist in college and look what a complete and utter failure he has proven to be.“
—-Allen Greenspan WAS an Objectivist. WAS. He fell away from the Objectivist philosophy a long time ago.-before he began his career at the Federal Reserve. And yes, he was a BIG failure, but that is not due to his former association with the Objectivist philosophy, but rather his movement away from it into Keynesian economics.
By John on 07-19-08
To compare those who believe in a basic level of cooperation for an effective society to North Korea is simply ridiculous. North Korea is not a democracy. It is a totalitarian state that feeds the dictator (who actually adheres to the Objectivist belief in the heroic self. Damn everyone else—Kim Il’s got HIS).
Tell me one society that successfully lives under an Objectivist idealogy? You will say none. So that makes it merely an unrealistic and caustic philosophy.
The reality is that your notion of europe as failing states is completely and utterly false. You must get out more.
Tell me one… even one measure of societal success that the United States excels in over most modern european nations. Americans like to run around saying they are the best in the world, but the reality is this:
1) Health care expenses nearly double what europeans pay
2) Infant mortality rate in the US is sligthly higher than many third world countries
3) Economic growth and GDP—lagging far behind the Europeans
4) Education levels + quality and adoption of technology—America lagging FAR FAR behind the Europreans
5) and I could go on and on.
Tell me - and cite the specifics not just your “gut” American propoganda even one measurement that American is number 1 in the world at except for military spending.
So homework: Tell me one successful nation that has embraced Objectivist ideals ( the United States is not an Objectivist nation. Only a few intellectual wackos sitting around in coffee shops theorizing about Ayn Rands self-worship do not qualify)
And tell me one fully cited measurement of American excellence that does not include our spending on the military.
By Roark on 07-19-08
JOHN said,“To compare those who believe in a basic level of cooperation for an effective society to North Korea is simply ridiculous.“
—-No it’s not. First of all, we need to establish definitions. What do you consider a “basic level of cooperation”?-what is your standard for such a measurement? It’s actually not ridiculous to compare the two, because at root both NK and those whom you say want a “basic level of cooperation” hold man as a pawn for the state or the collective. Man is therefore not an end in himself, but a slave to another’s “needs” or “wants”. North Korea, as I stated earlier, is an extreme example of the ideaology that man has no identity or freedom outside of a collective. We are talking only of matters of degree, but the underlying principle is unchanged.
JOHN said,“North Korea is not a democracy.“
You’re right, they are not a democracy, at least not in the governmental sense, however the philosophy espoused by KJI is fully predicated on the anihilation of the individual for the masses. In NK it is the total denial of a man’s right to his own life and his servitude for others that equates it with democracy and its precepts, i.e. might makes right.- or as you would say a “basic level of cooperation” (at the point of a gun, mind you).
JOHN said,“who actually adheres to the Objectivist belief in the heroic self.“
—-Wrong again. Objectivism is completely at odds with men who seek to be dictators and tyrants and who desire to violate anothers right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You are confusing rational individualism with nihilism. “The notion that a dictatorship can benefit any one social group at the expense of others is a worn remnant of the Marxist mythology of class warfare, refuted by half a century of factual evidence. All men are victims and losers under a dictatorship; nobody wins—except the ruling clique.“-AR
JOHN said,“Tell me one society that successfully lives under an Objectivist idealogy?“
Of course there is none. Objectivism is a philosophy for living based on reason and reality. Like liberty, It is a continual process to promote the ideas of Objectivism in society, but more importantly it is crucial for the individual to live by them and to understand them. The USA is by far the closest any nation has come to embracing an Objectivist ideaology. Just because no nation has embraced a fully Objectivist society doesn’t make it impossible.
JOHN said,“The reality is that your notion of europe as failing states is completely and utterly false.“
—-I consider failing as super high tax rates, government regulation over every facet of business, government intrusion into personal liberty, government appeasement of the enemy and its embrace of political correctness, altruism, and in general making the state supreme and the individual a begging serf, etc. Yes, European governments have indeed failed.
JOHN said,“1) Health care expenses nearly double what europeans pay”
—-Incorrect, through massive tax rates the europeans pay more for their healthcare, not to mention the long waiting lists to be seen, the approved lists of those who qualify for certain operations, and the substandard care. And then there is the whole arena where the medical professionals are hog-tied to the state.
“2) Infant mortality rate in the US is sligthly higher than many third world countries “
—-where is your evidence?
“3) Economic growth and GDP—lagging far behind the Europeans “
—-show me the chart.
“4) Education levels + quality and adoption of technology—America lagging FAR FAR behind the Europreans”
—-show me the evidence.
JOHN said,“Tell me - and cite the specifics not just your “gut” American propoganda even one measurement that American is number 1 in the world at except for military spending.“
—-I’ll name the most important one on which ALL the other spheres are predicated; Individual freedom and liberty. To be sure America is a mess, due to her embrace of socialism and altruism, but name me one nation where an individual has as much freedom and liberty from government control or anarchy.
As much as I like debating, this issue has gone off topic.
By sharon krumland on 08-05-08
I find S.Walker’s article very interesting. I was commenting to my spouse the very day before I read the Beacon about the high price of gas in Kalispell. We were in Missola last sat. and gas was 3.99 for regular. I think we do need an investigation. It looks like gas gouging to me!Also Kalispell is taking advantage of the tourist season.I have only lived here a year,and I think I see the whole picture.You go-girl!
By Roark on 08-05-08
“I think we do need an investigation.“
—-into what?
“It looks like gas gouging to me!“
—-WHAT do you define as gas gouging, and WHY do you cal it that. AT what price is gas “acceptable” in your terms?
By skrumland on 08-05-08
I just don’t understand why some service stations can charge more than others?I did see where the price has gone down at some stations to 3.99 (this a.m.} in Kalispell. Isn’t this a great country because we can express ourselves to one another without getting thrown into prison ?God bless America!!