I’m pleased that Rep. Rehberg sees this bill in the same light that I do - this bill does almost nothing to improve the environment, it only serves as a tax collection vehicle at a time when that is the last thing we need from government.  Pelosi needs to step down - she is obviously inept and does nothing to serve the people of this nation.  Take a look at the European nations, specifically gasoline - it costs more than double per gallon there compared currently to the US, and the taxation laws there only serve as a collection vehicle for those governments.

Hopefully it will never make it to the Senate floor.

It appears this bill will be delayed until the fall, despite Obama wanting to get this bill passed before the end of August, when Congress goes into recess.  I hope you’re right, Roark - I really do hope this bill gets killed early, but I really don’t see that happening.

@mooseberry - you’re absolutely right; this administration is going to finish the job of collapsing the economy of this country, and all the while telling us that it is for its own good.  Unless we do something to prevent what is happening now, we are just as guilty of allowing it to happen as they are of engineering it.  We must continue to be heard, and we must tell others to stand up and speak out against tyranny.

Mooseberry, they are not talentless - they know exactly what they are doing.  For the sake of our nation, they must be stopped.

My neighbor worked LAPD vice 23 years, his friend is FBI for 16.  Got to talking about pensions/retirement that will be stolen, the People having no representation in Congress, crime families operating the national printing presses..Perhaps one of you local CIA retired spooks can tell me why your brothers in the shadows haven’t arrested Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Lautenberg, Emanuel, Soros, Ruppert, Murdoch, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Dupoint, Riley P. Bechtel etc?  What’s the appropriate response to all these czars appointed by Obama without accountability to a legitimate Congress?  (not a Congress that’s been compromised of course)  Seems if as John Kennedy warned, the people working in the shadows were exposed and incarcerated, the evil could end?  Too late?  Too many sold their souls to satan?  How can we allow to serve in the executive office guys like Biden and Emanuel, guys calling themselves Zionists (occultist fake Jews that seeks to rule the world with an iron fist, with an oppression we see in Gaza)?  Rothschilds and his Freemason associates build an altar to antichrist for all to see in Jerusalem and nobody cries FOUL! (Israeli Supreme Court Complex)  Satanists spew their agenda on our youth via MTV (seen the latest Korn video) and no one raises a stink?  Enough already.

mooseberryinn….I agree completely…it seems like they are bound to tear down this country and rebuild it with robots as Americans. Do as we are told…when we are told and how we are told. People need to wake up and act instead of burying their heads in the sand doing nothing.

listening to a republicans complain about “powerful special interests” unduly influencing government would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.

the rightwings idea of increasing democracy is by increasing the power of Big Business….to them WE THE PEOPLE are the mob and scary and something to be contained….

also quite pathetic if it wasn’t so scary


(feel free to flame away now 6000 year flatlanders club members)

@Woody -  It’s always so nice of you to constantly point out the problems with the Republican party.  Maybe you could also be a little more balanced though and also point out the problems with the Democratic party?  You could also point out the problems with the Left, Right, Conservatives, NeoCons, Liberals, and Independents.

Dems and Rupubs are both too blame for the utter mess the USA is in.  We need to clear the government of all of the corrupt parties and go to a non party system.  Where you actually vote for some who you believe will follow your standards as close as possible instead of merely voting for someone because of their party designation.  It seems to me that almost none of our representatives listen to what we the people have to say.  So if that’s the case then we clearly have no representation of the people in the government.  We are ruled by an elitist group not the people.

On a side note there’s as much “proof” the Earth is 6000+/- years old as there is that it’s Billions.  Do you homework and see for yourself. 

As far as the Flatlanders go, I think those are mostly Liberals and they’ll never learn anyway.

“If power corrupts absolutely then most politicians most be absolutely powerful!”

what we really need to do is get big business and their overt influnce thru lobbying and campaign dollars out of politics…

the problem is that republicans - and democrats when they act like republicans - are all too willing to subvert the will of WE THE PEOPLE for a few dollars and a golden parachute when they leave congress….

money isn’t free speech and corporations aren’t people…..

there it is a a nutshell

and why be balanced when this blog has the most unbalanced rightwing rhetoric in the entire state….. I offer that balance…..most liberals get tired of being beat up on and threatened…as I have been many many times…..why does the rightwing always turn to threats and violence when it comes to political disagreements?

www.democracynow.org
www.kpfa.org/free-speech-radio-news

@Woody -  Would we have the USA if the original Americans didn’t resort to Violence?  Would we have the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any of our basic freedoms?

As it is now the American People are lemmings being led to a cliff and not enough are seeing the cliff in time!

well the problem is the people on the right - and for that matter the demos who follow them -  the American revolution was a kickback AGAINST big business when the Crown gave the East India Trading Co a tax free monopoly - which they were then using to put the small business owner out of business…..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Act

kind of like wal-mart

so the philosophy of the big business party - the republicans -was the same as the tories - otherwise known as the royalists - so if Americans really understood history we would be tar and feathering you on the right…....

BUT largely the progressives have followed jesus, gandhi, and martin luther king in saying violence is NOT ALRIGHT…we can win in the end without it….....

AND the republicans never met a war they didn’t love…..

We Americans didn’t start the violence w/ the British.  They started it at lexington and concord.

we then got together, chose representatives and then decided democratically that there was no petitioning a british parliment that we were not a part of, and had no right of appeal.

Then the british attacked us more, trying to pick off the colonies 1 by 1 so we defended ourselves.

Learn your history. Google it for cripes sake. Then it wouldn’t be frustrating having a political argument w/ someone who actually knew a little true history and were not gleeming their skewed views from some rightwing rag or viral email.

@Woody - Thanks for the History lesson that I didn’t need.  You seem to only read what you want and then make up the rest in your head.  I understand what the past wars were about and how they were started.  It’s all because WE THE PEOPLE have no control of THEM the GOVERNMENT!

I don’t give 2 cents as to if it’s Big Business Controlling big government or whatever.  All I’m trying to get into your thick liberal lefty wacko skull is that all government is currently to blame for the state of the union not just the idiot Republicans.  The Dems that you say follow the Repubs what would that make them?  What the heck are the Dems doing that makes them so great?  NOTHING!  The whole system is corrupted and broken.

Your so busy Googling that to prove how internet savvy you are that you misread what people are saying to you. 

Why don’t you learn you debating skills.  Google how to debate for cripes sake!

the problem is that the righties idea is that if we DEREGULATE big business even more - somehow - by osmosis - their power will lessen -

THAT is idiotic -

at least the democrats are TRYING to get rid of the lobbyists and banking - we actually thought maybe we had someone better than another goldman sachs puppet….

and if he turns out to be a goldman puppet then us on the left will throw him under the bus…..starting w/ me

but you righties let your guy run rough-shod over the very constitution you profess to love so much and didn’t DO A THING ABOUT IT.

Basically ALL social justice groups and lobbyists for WE THE PEOPLE are on the side of the democrats - even if we have a bunch of dino’s like baucus -
for example the stimulus bill had a “BUY AMERICAN ” clause - EVERY republican was against it and 10 or so blue dogs form the demos followed their big contributors into the republican camp -  so there is a difference


http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://www.theyrule.net/

no doubt-  but why do you continue to think that by deregulating big business it will somehow rein them in?

and why is the right so against lobbying reform….ie: make it illegal

money is not free speech…and corporations aren’t people

no word about that righties…

because you have no ideas but to complain

give me a decent idea that does not lead to MORE power to the corporations to steal our democracy…


just one idea!

@Woody -  I gave you an idea already.  Remove the current party system and all it’s members and start over with new non party affiliated Representatives and make lobbying illegal.  Also enforce the laws on the books already and remove the criminals from power.  Not to mention the President who won’t even show his real birth certificate to prove he’s truly eligible to be the President.  He’s got to be the most arrogant and pushy President we’ve had yet!  He’s putting us on notice though! 

So my idea in case you got lost above,  clean the slate and start over and actually follow the laws of the land.

the you better blow up the constitution and start over because we have a “winner take all” election system…...

we can agree that big money is the bane of democracy

and

lobbying should be illegal

other than that the obama birht certificate is simply raving lunatic talk -

and BUSH 2 (shrub bush) -  NOW THERE is the worst president EVER!  And McCain was the TRUE candidate that wasn’t born on US soil - so he wasn’t eligible either -

how about a sensible manufacturing policy

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/07/14-0

@Woody - Why is asking to see the official original paper copy of his Birth Certificate raving lunatic talk?  The statement you make itself is a bit on the lunatic side.

I would never have voted for Mcpain regardless of which country he was born or resident of.

Bush2 was definitely in the top 10 worst,  I think Obama will be right there with him though.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

By By :  I agree, it is a honest question.  With all the rumours flying around about him not having a US birth certificate, would one not want to show their certificate just to end the gossiping ?
I know I would to disprove the rumours, and to give added confidence to my fellow Americans. Soooo why wont they show it ??  hmmm thats the million dollar question !!!

As corny as it may sound Mooseberry, when you give it a long hard look ( that being all the things occuring within the financial sectors, the bailouts, the stimulus (2nd one coming through soon) The federal deficit has topped $1 trillion for the first time ever and could grow to nearly $2 trillion by this fall,intensifying fears about higher interest rates, inflation and the strength of the dollar, the new taxes being impose, the new restrictions, and even getting to put taxes on things that one person can deem is BAD for you….) It would have to be a honest calculation that economic destruction may very well be on the horizon ( Can anyone honestly see any good in all that ??).........  Lord help us all if TSHTF !!!!

In the meantime, the U.S. debt now stands at $11.5 trillion. Interest payments on the debt cost $452 billion last year — the largest federal spending category after Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense.
The overall debt is now slightly more than 80 percent of the annual output of the entire U.S. economy, as measured by the gross domestic product. During World War II, it briefly rose to 120 percent of GDP.
The debt is largely financed by the sale of Treasury bonds and bills.


. “No generation has a right to contract debts greater than can be paid off during the course of its own existence.” - George Washington to James Madison 1789.

As had been said time and again, the stimulus is a bandaid measure delaying the inevitable collapse.  Deficit spending by our government is greater than it has ever been - and it only serves to weaken an already weak dollar.  The more money the Fed cranks out, the weaker our dollar become - all the Fed has is a printing press and license to print more fiat dollars.  The government’s largest creditor, China,  is rightly worried about its investment in our economy, like any investor looking for return on their investment.  Geithner’s reassurances are transparent to them - they know what is coming, and they fear that they will be holding a bunch of worthless paper in the end, worth little more than firestarter or toilet paper.  With the national debt due to be higher than GDP, it is inevitable what will happen.  Those who advocate what Obama is doing should do the math themselves, and then come back and say that we are doing the “right thing” - and bring the numbers to prove it.

WHAT IS PAST IS PROLOGUE.

I have to give credit where credit is due…..

bye and bye is the FIRST conservative on this site to EVER call for such a progressive idea as ban big business lobbying.


and the debt-  it is a CONSERVATIVE invention -  when WE THE PEOPLE run a country we do not throw it in debt

the idea was called “starving the beast.” by Grover Norquist -  one of the creators of the modern day conservative movement

bankrupt the gov thru staggering national debt - handed out to capitalist cronies - and the gov will not be able to pay for even the smallest items outside of the military-prison-industrial-complex

stratify wealth to a very few at the top - with the vast majority scraping by on the verge of bankruptcy and homelessness -

by driving us into poverty we will not fight back as hard because we will be too intent on finding something to eat - 

college was basically free in california til reagan (w/ nordquist’s help) ended it because he was sick of people protesting the vietnam war

then reagan won the presidency - by stealing it of course(negotiating to keep the iranian hostages captive until after the election - soon to turn into iran-contra)

and the race to the bottom was on

now it’s going on 30 years of voodoo economics

ALL BACKED AND PAID FOR BY BIG BUSINESS

Big business….. YEP hands are dirty, the elite…. YEP hands are dirty, Wall Street…... YEP hands are dirty ( dont forget our new presidnet is their boy), The deomcrats…... YEP hands are dirty, the Republicans…... YEP hands are dirty !  NOTICE ALL of the above are tied together, dont think that they are NOT in the same bed, they ALL sleep together, and reproduce all the crap that is going to fall on our heads soon enough.  There is no good to find in the evil of it all !  While we sit back and allow it to happen, and squabble over insignificant differances such as left, or right, and argue over lame name calling, racist, extremists, and straight out bull, they sit back, KILL our dollar, our economy, and chip at our freedoms ( passing fly by night bills that will only enslave us more), NICE trick !!!!  The saddest part….... Well we will all sink in this boat folks, even those who thought all of this money being thrown around was going to help ( You dont spill 30 gallons more milk, to clean up after the gallon you spilled in the first place !!!)

Amen, granny - well said!!

Just saw this come out in the news:

“With $108 billion in International Monetary Fund loan guarantees in jeopardy last month, White House economic officials begged, cajoled and cut deals with Democrats to secure passage of legislation boosting the fund’s power. Days later, President Barack Obama announced he wasn’t bound by any of the agreements.”

So Obama didn’t hold true to his word again. Big shock there!! Oh… I understand the problem now, now the dems are getting the shaft and that’s why their speaking up. When he lies about other stuff that doesn’t affect them, then its OK. Got it.

At least when our party misbehaves we have the guts and integrity to stand up and call them out on it…...

unlike the republican…“yes sir” party…...

where were you during the bush years?

in line that’s where…..

it wasn’t until you realized you blew your party up and were going to lose the election that you started in w/ the “I’m no republican” garbage

just like palin - quit and call it winning


JUST ONE FACT that’s all I want.

EVERYONE read the above rightwing posts - NEVER a fact…..

No Ideas and No Facts

Ummm…woody, did you actually say “integrity” when referring to politicians???? 

I don’t care which party they hold to - no politician in this country has ANY integrity!!! NONE!!!  Politicians don’t serve the people, they serve themselves and their “special interests” to keep themselves in power.

I really don’t care whether the GOP or the Dems win or lose elections - they all need to be fired!!  To me they are two heads on the same snake.

The integrity was for the common working man of the democratic party who will stand up to their leaders and call them on their BS

UNLIKE you cowards - you stuck your tails between your legs and let bush trash the country while you all sat there yelling - terrorists….

your either with me or agaisnt me

terrorists

while the TRUE TERRORISTS are you rightwing nazis - going into churchs and killing people

freaks who lack even a basic understanding of history

and here’s a fact for you fact adverse righties

MORE PEOPLE ARE EMPLOYED BY SMALL BUSINESS THAN BIG BUSINESS AND MAKE MORE MONEY!

I’d say get your facts right - but why bother - you don’t have the brain capacity in that rattle trap of yours

Thus fascism tends to be anti-intellectual.[94] The Nazis in particular despised intellectuals and university professors. Hitler declared them unreliable, useless and even dangerous.[95] Hitler said of them: “When I take a look at the intellectual classes we have - unfortunately, I suppose, they are necessary; otherwise one could one day, I don’t know, exterminate them or something - but unfortunately they’re necessary.”


sounds amazingly similar to all the words written here by the global warming deniers to me

Figures that you would quote Hitler, woody - but I guess that’s to be expected from a socialist sympathizer like you…

Anyone short sighted enough to not see past the color of a political party must have molasses for brains - and ignorant enough to be a sucker for more verbal abuse.

YEP !  Love how a persons true colors come out, usaully becoming most obvious during a fit of rage.  He has down graded poor people by throwing the words ” Trailer trash” around.  Now he chants hitlers words….....  He dont even know what he believes in, yet trys to stand and judge the rest of us !

Yeah, I can just see it now…“well, we did the very best we could to save the economy, the environment, and give everybody health care, but we underestimated how much damage was done by Bush”.  Kinda sounds like what B.O.‘s saying now about the unemployment figures.

Granny: I’ll just assume you mis-typed when you used “US birth certificate” because such a thing doesn’t exist.  Each of the states are responsible for issuing birth certificates.  The only reason there are rumors is because some people can’t bring themselves to believe the facts of the matter, like birth announcements in the 2 local papers at that time.  It’s more about racism on the “birthers” part than anything.  Check out this snopes item

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

snopes is a non-partisan web-site that investigates rumors and urban legends.

Good grief KN….... Ya darn well KNOW what I ment….. FINE a AMERICAN birth certificate steming from one of our STATES !!!!  Meaning given birth to in ANY part of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA !!!!!  or PROOF of being born a United States Citizen !!!  OK ? 
The thing that is most often true about rumors, is that most times within the rumor is a extent of truth, thats what kicks them off in the first place, and from there they grow.  If someone told me they seen a cow fly, I would NOT believe them without PROOF, thats what people want, PROOF !  because of the rumor, you cant trust one that you have to question !  SO why not cough it up, display it ?  whys that an issue ?  How many times in life do we have to show ours ?  We dont try to go around it, we pull that certificate out, show it, and get what we want done, well, DONE !

FYI

I am neither left nor right wing, republican nor democrat, liberal nor conservative…..I’m just me, and I think for myself I do not follow a group without reservation. I hate with a passion all racism, socialism and mindless following of any ideal PERIOD !

There was never any extent of truth for the rumor to start.  It was smear job cooked up by some GOP goof-ball.  The birth cert has been inspected by reputable third partiesand determined to be legitimate. PBO doesn’t need to hand it over to ever person that comes down the road demanding to see it.

I think I have produced my birthcert 3 times in my life, joining USAF, getting my first passport and getting some back-ups copies made.  Who carries their birthcert with them as a day-to-day matter of course?

Read the snopes article.  The birthcert issue was laid to rest (at least for reasonable people) long ago.

Yep Mooseberryinn, better enjoy this summer, take a vacation, relax, enjoy the fruits of your labors. May be hard to do in the coming future !!!!  The squirrel factor is coming !