Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Karen Zilinski - NJ on 09-13-08
I personally appreciate the passion that Serra voices in her article and agree with every statement. My 11 year old daughter Janet collapsed at cheerleading practice in a league that was part of a national organization. There was and is still no requirement from the league to require coaches be certified in CPR or using an AED. Through our own efforts, we have placed an outdoor box with an AED at all of our township’s athletic fields. They will stay outside from April through November and brought in during the winter months when the temperature is in the teens and the fields are not in use. Survival is almost 90% if defibrillated within the first minute.
I am not surprised by the in-action of the school district because I have witnessed similar actions of ignorance. I commend you for having the courage to say what is right - and fight for the protection of our kids. So be it if your child gets a few less plays because you spoke up to keep all of the children alive.
In NJ, we are fighting for Janet’s Law to be passed - which would require every school, public playing field and sports league to have an AED - with trained coaches/staff. This would be mandatory at all practices, games and events. Camps would be required to have AEDS and counselors trained. It is all possible - it just takes a small effort and a huge heart.
Please visit our website http://www.janetzilinski.org. We have created the JANET bag - Janet’s Always Near Emergency Treatment - a fully stocked EMT bag with an AED inside. It can travel with the team to practices and games. Just like you wouldn’t play without the football or your equipment, don’t play without the JANET Bag.
Keep pushing forward - all you are doing is worth it.
Sincerely,
Karen Zilinski
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Adam Wofford on 09-16-08
I totally agree. The school district should have done their homework, AEDs are rarely effective without CPR, and that requires minimal training—it can be done in an hour. Sounds like it’s time to clean out your school board. Sorry to hear they’re being such…
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By A.R. on 09-16-08
I disagree with the point of this article. I don’t understand why parents would ASSUME that football coaches, cheerleading coaches, chess coaches, etc…. would be trained to use an A.E.D. or even know C.P.R. I agree that it should be mandatory to attend C.P.R. training, but to insist on taking an A.E.D. on the field is overboard. An A.E.D. momentarily stops the heart, so that hopefully, the heart will stop fibrillating and find a normal heart rythem. It isn’t necessarily going to save your childs life, and it probably wouldn’t have saved Bowmans life on the Bigfork practice field. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children, and the decisions you make. If you are concerned that BHS isn’t doing enough, than stop complaining and join the BHS boosters, or school trustee’s. I am a former little guy football coach, and High School wrestling coach. I am a VOLUNTEER!! Fortunately, I used to work in the EMS system and am certified in many types of emergency medical protocols. Unfortunately, many of my fellow coaches and staff are not certified in CPR or using AED’S. - Why Not? Because we are VOLUNTEERS!!! Volunteering our time and energy to YOUR children. Many Volunteer coaches, like the ones at BHS, FHS, CFHS, ...etc, etc, don’t have the time or the funds to take these certification courses! I think they should be mandatory, but I understand that these volunteers can’t do everything. Mam, if your so concerned, I challenge you to Volunteer your time to the school district, Take an EMT class at FVCC, and set an example!!! I know if you go talk to Mr. Loeffler at BHS, and let him know you want to do this, He’ll find a place for you! Everyone needs to start being pro-active, instead of being an in-active complainer. Take responsibility for yourselves, your children, and your actions- GET INVOLVED, and realize that those coaches, are helping out for the sake of YOUR children- Trust me- no one is doing it for the pay!!!
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By H. Williams on 09-16-08
This letter goes out to A. R. (afraid to give his full name, probably works for, or has friends at BHS) Are you implying that trying to change the protocol at BHS is NOT being pro-active???? Your letter is contradictive, at first you state you disagree with the “point” of the article and then you turn around and agree that all coach’s should be certified. Which IS the POINT. You go on to say you don’t think the coaches themselves should pay for it. Perhaps you just ‘didn’t get it’ or you’re just shooting off the hip to ‘argue’ for the sake of it? Valentine’s article was suggesting that the school makes it part of their ‘protocol’ and therefore the school ‘pays’ for it. Perhaps you should re-read the article.
If you are such a great VOLUNTEER and have an interest (as your comments imply) then someone like you could volunteer to give CPR/AED training to the schools around the area?? However, I question the effectiveness of your EMT service and training due to the uneducated statements regarding the effectiveness of the AED. If anyone reading this is interested in the truth about AED’s effectiveness I encourage you to do so and not rely on this persons ‘lack of knowledge’. Furthermore; the boosters have nothing to do with changing a schools protocol, one doesn’t just ‘join’ the schools ‘trustees’, and I don’t think that the parents being CPR certified is the point of this article. As far as your ridiculous comment that quick use of an AED wouldn’t have saved Bowman’s life… he went almost 15 min without his heart beating before an AED started his heart. If an AED had been on the field it could have been used within a minute or two. A BIG difference between two minutes and fifteen. Dont believe me… then hold your breath and watch the clock. Perhaps if that had been your child… lying there without defibrillation and thus NO oxygen you wouldn’t make such uniformed comments. If the next child that this happens to is yours then perhaps you will rethink your comment that putting an AED on the field is “overboard”. If everyone stays uniformed and ignorant we will no doubt lose another child (directly because of people just like you) before changes are made to insure their safety. I suggest to you that you put your energy into something that you are more qualified to comment on.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By A.R. on 09-17-08
This is for H. Williams- You say that Bowman went 15 minutes without a heart beat before the MAGIC aed started his heart again??!!! Sounds like you need to stop beliving everything you read, and do some research of your own! AEDs, as with all defibrillators, are not designed to shock asystole (‘flat line’ patterns) as this will not have a positive clinical outcome. The asystolic patient only has a chance of survival if, through a combination of CPR and cardiac stimulant drugs, and last I heard, coaches aren’t carrying those types of drugs. My point was obviously WAY over your head, smart guy. Parents need to take responsibility for themselves, and their OWN children- NOT to rely on OTHER people. You must be one of those guy’s that want the government to hold your hand, and take care of EVERYTHING for you, and tell you everythings going to be alright.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By FootballMom on 09-17-08
To H.Williams…I think you are extremely defensive and did not offer one solid, intellectual and useful suggestion in your long winded comment. I agree with A.R. in that parents have a voice and should not wait until the unfortunate tragedy to make some positive changes. When I first signed my then young son up for little guys football, I took it upon myself to ask around to the coaches and other parents if there was anyone actively certified in CPR in case a child had an accident. Would I let him play in high school without a solid physical, screening him for any abnormalities or concerns before letting him practice under the hot sun in heavy gear? No I wouldn’t. Let’s all move forward and take responsibility for our children and do what we need to make sure this doesn’t happen again, but lay off of each other for making valid, educational comments. That’s not what this forum is about Mr. H Williams. You ripped apart A.R. like he had no business giving his opinion, and isn’t what we are ALL allowed to do here? Again, try focusing on how to move forward, not backwards. I think everyone has some legitimate concerns and reasoning to be offered to the school board for suggestion. When are you all going to be there to voice it?
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Hank on 09-17-08
To both of you that commented… who are probably—-one and the same—- I have done my homework, and if Bowman had a flat line for 15 min his heart would not have restarted. He was obviously in v-fib and that is exactly what the AED is for. You are also forgetting the FACT that the Coach’s ALLOWED this child (along with two other kids one of them being assistant coach Bolivar’s own son—read the kaleva report) to play without ... I REPEAT with OUT a physical. Get over it you uneducated EMT wanna be. Suggestions have been made to the school board and they are sitting on their butts doing NOTHING. That is the point of the article, to get a protective protocol in place to protect the kids. I guess you don’t want that for your children. The Bowman’s didn’t give the school permission for their son to play. The school allowed him to play, (which was against the states RULES) with out a physical and without permission. Do you keep forgetting those FACTS? Your comment that parents need to take responsibility for their own children… I guess that means that you school them yourselves, do surgery on them yourselves, practice dentistry yourself and if they go into v-fib on the field you will run over from work and hook up your own AED and hand out cigars to everyone standing by watching. I’ll pray for your children. There is NO doubt in my mind that you are either one of the coaches, a friend of one of the coaches or just another ignorant Montanan. Opinions are wonderful however, you contradict yourself and speak without warrant and are offering nothing to solve the problem. I AGREE with Valentines assessment that the few suggestions she recommended will protect all the kids involved (including yours) it is a NO BRAINER to keep the gates unlocked, bring an AED to the field (hundreds of other schools do it) and to provide AED training to the coaches. It is already required that they be CPR certified. So a few min to unlock a gate, a few muscles to carry up the AED (weighs 2 lbs) and an hour of AED training you want to fight???? What is it you do not understand????? You are too stuck on ego and refuse to ‘hear’ the point and are unwilling to change. Stuck on ‘defending’. People like you are not worth further comment.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Jim Zilinski on 12-21-08
When I read some of these comments I can’t believe how STUPID supposedly smart people can realy be. When i hear I’m a volunteer I shouldn’t have to do this. Well do you volunteer because your child’s on the team? I’m sure the answer is yes as most parents get involved in things because of thier children’s involvment. So please don’t come off and sould like you are doing the volunteering purely from your heart. Those who truely want to volunteer, will have no issue learning CPR/ AED practices. Those that do not want to lear, simply do not have the best interest of the children in mind. Why would you want to learn how to save a life??
Secondly an AED is most effective if the person is shocked with in the first 3 minutes, but after ten minutes the chances of survival are almost nothing. For every minute of delay the survival chance decreases by 10%. please don’t take my word for it visit the American heart association website or the sudden Cardiac arrest website or even the partent heart watch web site. This is where you will get the facts!, not from a man who claims to be a EMS, which by the way is NOT a paramedic. This is some one who happens to know first aid better then most; that is all. Most of the EMS workers understand that and don’t pretend to know it all like mr AR. Most realize thier limitations. If fact I have become friendly with many EMS workers and THEY support AED’s on playing fields and with people being trained in CPR and AED usage. As they know time is of theessence and waiting 15-30 minutes for EMS to arrive is a death sentence for a person in Sudden Cardiac Arrest.
Lastly i will say people are affaid to be suied if they step in and help, well i can tell you as fact that no one in my state( NJ) has ever been sued for using an AED or doing CPR and the person still passes. However; many lawsuite have been won against people who did nothing or if the school or facility did not have an AED on site. That is a matter of fact, so if the school decides to sit on its ass and do nothing, then all they are doing is setting themselves up for a lawsuit and for all you people that oppose common sence? Well I hope you never have to relay on a volunteer who thinks he shouldn’t learn how to save a life.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
In order to post comments you must register once with the Beacon and be logged in. Log in below or register now.
‘The Defining Story of This Band’
Glacier’s Quick Road to the Top
Giving Comfort When There is No Cure
Schweitzer Rejects NMAR’s Request for Special Session
Political, Agriculture Leaders React to Buffett’s BNSF Purchase
Comments on: Do More to Protect Our Children
Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Karen Zilinski - NJ on 09-13-08
I personally appreciate the passion that Serra voices in her article and agree with every statement. My 11 year old daughter Janet collapsed at cheerleading practice in a league that was part of a national organization. There was and is still no requirement from the league to require coaches be certified in CPR or using an AED. Through our own efforts, we have placed an outdoor box with an AED at all of our township’s athletic fields. They will stay outside from April through November and brought in during the winter months when the temperature is in the teens and the fields are not in use. Survival is almost 90% if defibrillated within the first minute.
I am not surprised by the in-action of the school district because I have witnessed similar actions of ignorance. I commend you for having the courage to say what is right - and fight for the protection of our kids. So be it if your child gets a few less plays because you spoke up to keep all of the children alive.
In NJ, we are fighting for Janet’s Law to be passed - which would require every school, public playing field and sports league to have an AED - with trained coaches/staff. This would be mandatory at all practices, games and events. Camps would be required to have AEDS and counselors trained. It is all possible - it just takes a small effort and a huge heart.
Please visit our website http://www.janetzilinski.org. We have created the JANET bag - Janet’s Always Near Emergency Treatment - a fully stocked EMT bag with an AED inside. It can travel with the team to practices and games. Just like you wouldn’t play without the football or your equipment, don’t play without the JANET Bag.
Keep pushing forward - all you are doing is worth it.
Sincerely,
Karen Zilinski
By Adam Wofford on 09-16-08
I totally agree. The school district should have done their homework, AEDs are rarely effective without CPR, and that requires minimal training—it can be done in an hour. Sounds like it’s time to clean out your school board. Sorry to hear they’re being such…
By A.R. on 09-16-08
I disagree with the point of this article. I don’t understand why parents would ASSUME that football coaches, cheerleading coaches, chess coaches, etc…. would be trained to use an A.E.D. or even know C.P.R. I agree that it should be mandatory to attend C.P.R. training, but to insist on taking an A.E.D. on the field is overboard. An A.E.D. momentarily stops the heart, so that hopefully, the heart will stop fibrillating and find a normal heart rythem. It isn’t necessarily going to save your childs life, and it probably wouldn’t have saved Bowmans life on the Bigfork practice field. Parents need to take responsibility for their own children, and the decisions you make. If you are concerned that BHS isn’t doing enough, than stop complaining and join the BHS boosters, or school trustee’s. I am a former little guy football coach, and High School wrestling coach. I am a VOLUNTEER!! Fortunately, I used to work in the EMS system and am certified in many types of emergency medical protocols. Unfortunately, many of my fellow coaches and staff are not certified in CPR or using AED’S. - Why Not? Because we are VOLUNTEERS!!! Volunteering our time and energy to YOUR children. Many Volunteer coaches, like the ones at BHS, FHS, CFHS, ...etc, etc, don’t have the time or the funds to take these certification courses! I think they should be mandatory, but I understand that these volunteers can’t do everything. Mam, if your so concerned, I challenge you to Volunteer your time to the school district, Take an EMT class at FVCC, and set an example!!! I know if you go talk to Mr. Loeffler at BHS, and let him know you want to do this, He’ll find a place for you! Everyone needs to start being pro-active, instead of being an in-active complainer. Take responsibility for yourselves, your children, and your actions- GET INVOLVED, and realize that those coaches, are helping out for the sake of YOUR children- Trust me- no one is doing it for the pay!!!
By H. Williams on 09-16-08
This letter goes out to A. R. (afraid to give his full name, probably works for, or has friends at BHS) Are you implying that trying to change the protocol at BHS is NOT being pro-active???? Your letter is contradictive, at first you state you disagree with the “point” of the article and then you turn around and agree that all coach’s should be certified. Which IS the POINT. You go on to say you don’t think the coaches themselves should pay for it. Perhaps you just ‘didn’t get it’ or you’re just shooting off the hip to ‘argue’ for the sake of it? Valentine’s article was suggesting that the school makes it part of their ‘protocol’ and therefore the school ‘pays’ for it. Perhaps you should re-read the article.
If you are such a great VOLUNTEER and have an interest (as your comments imply) then someone like you could volunteer to give CPR/AED training to the schools around the area?? However, I question the effectiveness of your EMT service and training due to the uneducated statements regarding the effectiveness of the AED. If anyone reading this is interested in the truth about AED’s effectiveness I encourage you to do so and not rely on this persons ‘lack of knowledge’. Furthermore; the boosters have nothing to do with changing a schools protocol, one doesn’t just ‘join’ the schools ‘trustees’, and I don’t think that the parents being CPR certified is the point of this article. As far as your ridiculous comment that quick use of an AED wouldn’t have saved Bowman’s life… he went almost 15 min without his heart beating before an AED started his heart. If an AED had been on the field it could have been used within a minute or two. A BIG difference between two minutes and fifteen. Dont believe me… then hold your breath and watch the clock. Perhaps if that had been your child… lying there without defibrillation and thus NO oxygen you wouldn’t make such uniformed comments. If the next child that this happens to is yours then perhaps you will rethink your comment that putting an AED on the field is “overboard”. If everyone stays uniformed and ignorant we will no doubt lose another child (directly because of people just like you) before changes are made to insure their safety. I suggest to you that you put your energy into something that you are more qualified to comment on.
By A.R. on 09-17-08
This is for H. Williams- You say that Bowman went 15 minutes without a heart beat before the MAGIC aed started his heart again??!!! Sounds like you need to stop beliving everything you read, and do some research of your own! AEDs, as with all defibrillators, are not designed to shock asystole (‘flat line’ patterns) as this will not have a positive clinical outcome. The asystolic patient only has a chance of survival if, through a combination of CPR and cardiac stimulant drugs, and last I heard, coaches aren’t carrying those types of drugs. My point was obviously WAY over your head, smart guy. Parents need to take responsibility for themselves, and their OWN children- NOT to rely on OTHER people. You must be one of those guy’s that want the government to hold your hand, and take care of EVERYTHING for you, and tell you everythings going to be alright.
By FootballMom on 09-17-08
To H.Williams…I think you are extremely defensive and did not offer one solid, intellectual and useful suggestion in your long winded comment. I agree with A.R. in that parents have a voice and should not wait until the unfortunate tragedy to make some positive changes. When I first signed my then young son up for little guys football, I took it upon myself to ask around to the coaches and other parents if there was anyone actively certified in CPR in case a child had an accident. Would I let him play in high school without a solid physical, screening him for any abnormalities or concerns before letting him practice under the hot sun in heavy gear? No I wouldn’t. Let’s all move forward and take responsibility for our children and do what we need to make sure this doesn’t happen again, but lay off of each other for making valid, educational comments. That’s not what this forum is about Mr. H Williams. You ripped apart A.R. like he had no business giving his opinion, and isn’t what we are ALL allowed to do here? Again, try focusing on how to move forward, not backwards. I think everyone has some legitimate concerns and reasoning to be offered to the school board for suggestion. When are you all going to be there to voice it?
By Hank on 09-17-08
To both of you that commented… who are probably—-one and the same—- I have done my homework, and if Bowman had a flat line for 15 min his heart would not have restarted. He was obviously in v-fib and that is exactly what the AED is for. You are also forgetting the FACT that the Coach’s ALLOWED this child (along with two other kids one of them being assistant coach Bolivar’s own son—read the kaleva report) to play without ... I REPEAT with OUT a physical. Get over it you uneducated EMT wanna be. Suggestions have been made to the school board and they are sitting on their butts doing NOTHING. That is the point of the article, to get a protective protocol in place to protect the kids. I guess you don’t want that for your children. The Bowman’s didn’t give the school permission for their son to play. The school allowed him to play, (which was against the states RULES) with out a physical and without permission. Do you keep forgetting those FACTS? Your comment that parents need to take responsibility for their own children… I guess that means that you school them yourselves, do surgery on them yourselves, practice dentistry yourself and if they go into v-fib on the field you will run over from work and hook up your own AED and hand out cigars to everyone standing by watching. I’ll pray for your children. There is NO doubt in my mind that you are either one of the coaches, a friend of one of the coaches or just another ignorant Montanan. Opinions are wonderful however, you contradict yourself and speak without warrant and are offering nothing to solve the problem. I AGREE with Valentines assessment that the few suggestions she recommended will protect all the kids involved (including yours) it is a NO BRAINER to keep the gates unlocked, bring an AED to the field (hundreds of other schools do it) and to provide AED training to the coaches. It is already required that they be CPR certified. So a few min to unlock a gate, a few muscles to carry up the AED (weighs 2 lbs) and an hour of AED training you want to fight???? What is it you do not understand????? You are too stuck on ego and refuse to ‘hear’ the point and are unwilling to change. Stuck on ‘defending’. People like you are not worth further comment.
By Jim Zilinski on 12-21-08
When I read some of these comments I can’t believe how STUPID supposedly smart people can realy be. When i hear I’m a volunteer I shouldn’t have to do this. Well do you volunteer because your child’s on the team? I’m sure the answer is yes as most parents get involved in things because of thier children’s involvment. So please don’t come off and sould like you are doing the volunteering purely from your heart. Those who truely want to volunteer, will have no issue learning CPR/ AED practices. Those that do not want to lear, simply do not have the best interest of the children in mind. Why would you want to learn how to save a life??
Secondly an AED is most effective if the person is shocked with in the first 3 minutes, but after ten minutes the chances of survival are almost nothing. For every minute of delay the survival chance decreases by 10%. please don’t take my word for it visit the American heart association website or the sudden Cardiac arrest website or even the partent heart watch web site. This is where you will get the facts!, not from a man who claims to be a EMS, which by the way is NOT a paramedic. This is some one who happens to know first aid better then most; that is all. Most of the EMS workers understand that and don’t pretend to know it all like mr AR. Most realize thier limitations. If fact I have become friendly with many EMS workers and THEY support AED’s on playing fields and with people being trained in CPR and AED usage. As they know time is of theessence and waiting 15-30 minutes for EMS to arrive is a death sentence for a person in Sudden Cardiac Arrest.
Lastly i will say people are affaid to be suied if they step in and help, well i can tell you as fact that no one in my state( NJ) has ever been sued for using an AED or doing CPR and the person still passes. However; many lawsuite have been won against people who did nothing or if the school or facility did not have an AED on site. That is a matter of fact, so if the school decides to sit on its ass and do nothing, then all they are doing is setting themselves up for a lawsuit and for all you people that oppose common sence? Well I hope you never have to relay on a volunteer who thinks he shouldn’t learn how to save a life.