Comments on: Evergreen Fire Makes Plea for New Station
By stop the madness! on 09-10-08
$4.4 million dollars for a building???? This seems beyond excessive to me. With the City’s financial woes, why not explore the idea of contracting with them to provide fire and ambulance service to Evergreen…The duplication of fire and EMS resources in this valley is absolutely redicilious in my opinion. When will all of these agencies begin working TOGETHER to give the residents the most for their money, rather than just continue to build their own multi-million dollar inventory of stations and equipment??
By InTheKnow on 09-10-08
In response to “stop the Madness”, have you done you’re research as to why this much needed hall is 4.4 million? Are you aware that most of the Flathead’s fire district’s are over 20 square miles? Evergreen’s district is 23 square miles. Every fire/ems department in this valley works together already. Duplication is due to distances traveled and nothing else. Under you’re proposal, If YOU call 911 for a life threatening incident you’re going to get a 20 minute response.Is this acceptable to you when it’s YOUR family?
By sharpshoot'in tony on 09-10-08
it really wouldn’t matter if Kalispell took over Evergreen fire. They would still have to build another station to cover that area. The current building needs to be replaced regardless
By stop the madness! on 09-10-08
in response to “in the know”...I can’t immagine why a department the size of Evergreen “needs” a 4.4 million dollar sation to run less than 1000 calls/year. I have seen the station the city built for around 3 million and it’s a slap in the face to the tax paying citizens….it’s like the Taj Mahal…and the city had to purchase the land with part of that 3 million! Now Evergreen “needs” over a million more than that and they already own the piece of dirt the station is going to sit on??? Are they using the City’s plans from their north fire station and putting on a copper roof and having gold door knobs? Perhaps my first comment may have been interperted to mean that I was against a new Evergreen station…that is not necessarily the case…if their current station isn’t adequate and is in disrepair, then fix it…or even replace it…but not with a 4.4 million dollar structure. And another thing…if every fire/ems department in this valley works togther already…then why would every department “need” ice rescue equipment? Why does every department “need” a set of extrication tools on every one of their fire engines? Why would Evergreen “need” a new ladder truck when the City of Kalispell already has one and has a brand new one on the way? Fact is….none of the fire/ems agencies in this valley work together to provide service for the betterment of all the valley’s resident’s…instead they are to tied up in having their own little “kingdoms”... As a tax payer I’m sick of it…I’m sick of paying for duplication of resources. I belive all the volunteer “kingdoms” should be consolidated into one department with a single board to answer to that can strategically place stations and equipment where they can be most effectively and effiently be utalized. Finally, your implication that if Evergreen doesn’t build this 4.4 million dollar station, the citizens that live there will have to wait 20 minutes to get a response is nonsense. Even if Evergreen contracted with the City to provide fire/ems protection and completely did away with it’s volunteer system,(which isn’t what I’m suggesting) I would venture to say there isn’t a house or business in Evergreen that couldn’t be reached by a fire engine or ambulance in less than 10 minutes from one of the City’s existing stations.
By M. Anderson on 09-11-08
I think consolidating the county departments into one department makes entirely too much sense to ever be done. I agree Evergreen needs a new station and support such a move. I just don’t think they need that much of a new station. If anything they should ask for the same amount of money, tone down the new building and use the left over money for a new ladder truck. They need a new truck, once the station is built that is when they will be looking for more money for that project.
By sharpshoot'in tony on 09-11-08
Stop the madness- I think you bring up a good point about consolidating into 1 dept , and M Anderson says it best- IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE. I have been saying for the last few years that we should have a County Fire Dept, instead of numerous volunteer dept.‘s that are independent of each other. Logistically, and financially, it would be the best way to go. I don’t see a downside to having a county dept., except it would upset a lot of volunteers, and their kingdoms.
By Pase on 09-11-08
Stop-the-madness,and the rest of you, I agree that 4.4 million dollars is alot of money. Unfortunately if you want to build a fire station that complies with OSHA and NFPA, stuff costs a lot more. When a public entity plans on building a building, they are in a tough situation. Half of the population doesn’t care about complying with regulations and wants it as cheap as possible, the other half will do everything they can to force you to comply. The only safe way to call a ballot election is to ask for the most money you could need, and then build as cost concious as possible. I think the voters would be more upset at an entity having to ask for more money. Look at the new high school, how many people were happy when they said that “OK, we have a building, but we need another levy to operate it”. As far as duplication of resources, yes there is some. But I would ask you how you felt if you fell through the ice in Olney and the Ice Rescue team was in Bigfork, or if you need to be extricated in Marion and the Jaws of life are in C Falls. The people demand that when they have an emergency that people show up prepared to help in minutes. That isn’t possible if the stuff is to far spread out. I think you would be surprised at how many departments wouldn’t mind a county fire dept, but you would be surprised at how little capital would be saved, and in addition if it went to a paid service, you would go from an area having 20 or so firefighters able to respond - to having three people able to do it. Just my 2 cents.
By No way on 09-11-08
No way am I voiting for this - not a chance.
By kdmontana on 09-11-08
Obviously comments on this are coming from people who live outside of the Evergreen area. If they lived in the area covered they would have received the information that was provided to all parties receiving ballots on the issue that the 4.4 million dollars did include funding for a new ladder truck and also at least one other piece of equipment. Also, you can’t convince me that Kalispell could reach areas covered by the substation on Birch Grove in 10 minutes with the way traffic is now.
By Padre Hora on 09-11-08
Kalispell Fire Departments New station cost them 3.2 MILLION dollars and currently they only have 3 firefighters stationed there! I think Evergreen should be able to build a station for less then Kalispell City, especially being that building costs have dropped dramatically this past year. The whole thing is crazy and mixed up. Whatever you do, lead by example and manage the money in your district better than Kalispell City has in theirs.
By Padre Hora on 09-11-08
Jim Patrick makes $133,000.00 per year. He also has a personal secretary that makes probably around $40,000.00. The City attorney makes $100,000.00. The city manager is 100% liable and responsible for the blundered new city hall that was over budget by ONE MILLION dollars. The New Fire Station cost the city 3.2 MILLION.
The city manager also, “doesn’t know” where another ONE MILLION dollars went. The city payed the “retiring” slash “encouraged to leave” Fire Chief Randy Brodehl, a handsome severance package rumored at six figures!
Citizens, countryman, my dearest neighbors of this floundering and bankrupt community! When will you become involved? Do you not see what is happening. We are being fleeced, sheared as if we were sheep! Your tax dollars are being taken and squandered. Now our public safety suffers, our parks suffer, our streets suffer, our trees suffer, our pool suffers, our community as a whole suffers.
The finger can point at one man and his accomplices. The city manager and the city council and mayor. He was never questioned, however was allowed to run this city with his iron fist and repeatedly painted pictures of projects far better than they actually turned out to be.
If you want this city to flourish and prosper and be a destination, then the time is now to replace the city council, one by one and the mayor as well. This entire process should start with the resignation of the city manager. We can no longer afford to pay for the mismanagement of our city by a handful of inept individuals.
By sharpshoot'in tony on 09-11-08
Pase- Look at other counties outside of Montana, and see how their county fire dept’.s operate. Look at Orange County Fire Authority in Southern Calif. By what you said, if there is an ice rescue emergency in Olney, and one in Bigfork, and the rescuers are in Bigfork, then there is one hell of a response time to Olney. My point is that there would be specially trained firefighters that could make an ice rescue stationed in Olney, as well as Bigfork, or anywhere there is a potential for that type of emergency. Flathead County Fire Dept. wouldn’t need to reinvent the wheel people! It’s already been done, all we have to do is demand that resources start WORKING TOGETHER!! City’s like Whitefish, C-falls, Kalispell, that have their own paid dept’s wouldnt need the Flathead County Fire Dept. Flathead Fire would take over stations already in exhistance, and go from their. I nominate myself as Chief, and I propose a starting salary of 200k a year! Who’s In!!!!????
By InTheKnow on 09-11-08
As I stated before, do the research and make an informed decision. Try talking to an Evergreen Volunteer or visit their website @Evergreenfirerescue.net. Is there anything worse than an uninformed voter?????
By InTheKnowAlso on 09-12-08
I agree with the consolodation idea proposed here. No we dont need to rinvent the wheel to make it happen, and we dont have to end up like Californians(just incase some of you were scared). All over this country fire departments consolodate and what do you know eficiency and service improves. Let be proactive here and make it happen instead of waiting decades and be forced into it after even more money has been waisted. I have been a firefighter and I know consolodation is practical and that it can be done. Its completly unreasonable to state that if a county department had some paid personnel you would loose all of your volunteers. Instead of your volunteer having to drive to the station in the middle of the night delaying response to a fire, a fiew paid firefighters would already at the station able to respond fast, and the volunteers would arrive a fiew minutes later and bring more equipment and personnel. That also happens sucessfully all over the country every day. Actually it happens in Evergreen. So here is a challenge to the Flathead County’s Rural Fire Department Chiefs, ALL OF YOU. Prove that you really are doing everything you can to work together. Show us you really care about us more than your position and power by getting together and discussing consolodation. Good and Bad points. Write a proposal and ask for public comment. Obviously its something the people you work for, AKA the taxpayers are interested in.
By InTheKnowAlso on 09-12-08
Yes, I Know, Spelling!
By stop the madness! on 09-12-08
well said “in the know also”. As I mentioned in my previous post, I’m not “anti-Evergren FD”. I am, however, against the wasteful spending that we, the tax payers, fund just so each “kingdom” can continue to exist. I believe construction of a 4.4 million dollar station in Evergreen is a step in the WRONG direction…I think it would delay further any attempt at consolidating all of the rural fire departments into one. Also, “Pase” ..I will have to disagree with you conclusion that the consolidation of the rural departments wouldn’t save on capitol…have you been to a parade in Kalispell in the past 10 years??? the first half-mile is nothing but fire trucks lined up bumper to bumper, each bearing the emblem of the volunteer agency from which they came. Also, “KDMontana”, as I mentioned earlier, I find it terribly disturbing, not to mention wasteful, that Evergreen feels they “need” a new ladder truck, when the City already has one and has a brand new one on order….are we really to believe there needs to be THREE ladder trucks between the communities of Kalispell and Evergreen???
By Mr. Ladder Truck on 09-12-08
Do we need THREE ladder trucks? Ask West Valley, they just bought the third one at $650,000 dollars to be delivered next year!
By blood gulch on 09-12-08
Bigfork Fire also bought a brand spankin new ladder truck!!!!! It’s AWSOME!!!!! Every Dept. should have one!!!!
By Mr. Ladder Truck on 09-12-08
Your right, they are awsome. They also cost 3/4 of a million dollars or more and duplicating those when not nessesary is absolutley wasteful. Big Fork and Kalispell are about 20 miles apart so yea I can understand that. But when Kalispell could respond their new truck to either one of West Valley’s Fire Stations in the same or less time it will take for their volunteers to just show up at their station? If you have lots of money to buy stuf with than great buy a truck you don’t really need. But dont come back in a fiew years and ask the taxpayers for money for something else. Or, better yet, have one department and then instead of purchasing that arn’t vital use the money to fund things like, I don’t know, a new station somewhere.
By What a waste on 09-12-08
West Valley is all going to be annexed within the next few decades. Whats the tallest thing in their district anyway? A twenty foot grain silo?? Why get a municipal ladder for a rural area? They won’t even be able to get their ladder into 90% of their logging road district. West Valley just wasted all their taxpayers dollars. What a waste!!
By Nate B. on 09-12-08
Do you realize that if rural department consolidate, there will still need to be FIRE STATIONS such as in evergreen. These stations will need to be built, repaired, maintained and staffed. Evergreen is trying to fulfill that by building a better station to provide for its community! Kalispell Fire can’t contract for Evergreen, because they don’t have enough personnel. I’m sure Evergreen has more than 3 firefighters per call due to their outstanding volunteers. Every fire dept specializing in something is impossible! This county is huge. Unless you want to wait for a half an hour for rescue, an ambulance, or engine that is “specially trained”?!?!?!?! Consolidating department that are in each others laps is a good idea, such as in the canyon, but evergreen? NO!!
By Mr. Ladder Truck on 09-12-08
To be fair I don’t know their justifications for getting this truck. I hope that they objectively ruled out other options such as mutual aid with Kalispell Fire. Perhaps they could let us all know why mutual aid wasn’t chosen and a hugely expensive truck was, I am open to logical justification. My point was to show that money is indeed being wasted on a regular basis by the rural fire community through duplication of effort and equipment. Does Evergreen really need a new station? Yea they do. Go look at the one they have, its over half a century old. THEY NEED A NEW ONE and they need it soon, you can be sure that this money will not be wasted. But if you want to make sure than go to your rural fire district board meetings. The Rural Fire Boards work for each of us as we are taxpayers. Ask questions, get involved, oppose wasteful spending, push for efficiency.
By InTheKnowAlso on 09-12-08
That’s true, Evergreen does indeed need this station. That doesn’t mean that consolidation is out of the question. If you really do want consolidation than don’t just post it in this forum. Pressure your local fire department, pressure the county commissioners. If a consolidating dispatch will create more efficiency than so should consolidating the fire departments. Will it be hard? Probably. If other areas have figured out how to make it happen so can we. Or are we willing to give up and admit we just cant figure it out because we aren’t smart or capable enough?
By stop the madness! on 09-12-08
Nate…I must disagre with your comment. Consolidation needs to happen NOW…before any more tax money is wasted on stations that may not be placed where they would provide the mostt effecive and efficient service to the ENTIRE community…consolidating would mean only ONE board would run the show…and would be able to make decisions (such as where to place stations) based on what’s best for all residents of the valley. I’m not suggesting Evergreen get rid of their volunteers, they are a tremendous asset to this valley….see sharp shootin tony’s post above, that talks about combination departments in other areas of the country that work extremely well. Your statement that consolidating departments in areas that “are in each others laps” nearly made me laugh….if it weren’t such a redicilious statement! If you havent’ noticed…Evergreen is hardly a district that is remote from any other agency (as is the case with nearly every other “kingdom” in this valley) Kalispell City, South Kalispell, Smith Valley, West Vally and yes…Evergreen are perfect examples of “kingdoms” that “are in each other’s laps” as you say. Definately within close enough proximity to each other that they should be able to share some resources….rather than have each department continue to waste that tax payer’s money in attempt to “one up” the others…. The same holds true in and around the other major cities in the valley as well. STOP THE MADNESS! consolidate rural fire and ems NOW! put an end to this wasteful, redundant, misuse of tax dollars!
By nate on 09-12-08
But there is still a need for each department to exist. My comment about departments being in each others laps is far from rediculous. Fire departments such as Canyon Fire, Martin City Fire, and West Glacier Fire are… Pooling funds is an extremely good idea, but this valley is far from such a step. If these “kingdoms” you speek of are only volunteering the amount of time just to gain power, they are in that profession for the wrong reason. And as for the fire departments surrounding Kalispell, they do share resources. A mutual aid agreement exists for fires, and Evergreen recently started responding its ambulance to Creston Fires district for medical calls, for the good of the community!
By InTheKnowAlso on 09-13-08
You are partialy correct nate. We do need community fire station to exist. We need volunteer firefighters in our comunities. We do not need 20 some chiefs, over 100 district trustees, and the asociated complications and duplications of recources. The only reason we are far from such a step is… well… there is NO GOOD REASON! Im not saying that none of the departments are helping each other out. Evergreen seems to do a very good job of going wherever they are needed, at least from what the papers say. I am saying that as a whole things will be exponentially BETTER if they consolodate.
By InTheKnow on 09-14-08
For those of you that feel that the County should take over the Rural fire stations in Flathead County, Here’s some food for thought…...all of the fire districts are set up as nonprofits which allow for fundraising efforts of each district to supplement their revenue not supported by tax dollars. I don’t know of a single fire district that does not do fundraising. The county can not legally do fundraising which leads to my next question…..Have any of you done the research to see how much revenue is generated by fundraising? Ask Marion, Creston or any others and you’ll discover that alot of these districts simply cannot operate without fundraising efforts. If you think Flathead County can financially assume the debt, maintain the districts, and successfully recruit and maintain volunteers in 19 districts without raising YOUR taxes more than an individual district you are delirious! Has anyone been following the road dust issue? WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!
By InTheKnowAlso on 09-14-08
We are not saying that the County should “take over” the Rural fire districts. We are saying that if necessary to accomplish consolidation, the County should intervene and create a new all encompassing fire district with a fire board as its governance. This district would be a separate entity from the “County” just as the many districts today, but instead of 20 or so districts and boards there would be 1. That one district would have all of the privileges of fund raising that any of the districts currently have. Any more questions?
By jmo on 09-15-08
Yes the Evergreen FD does need a new building however they are asking for too much. Just like the 9-1-1 center is asking for too much, like the City of kalispell is always asking for too much (how about the new reponse fee’s for the ambulance). Don’t they realize people are tapped out and it is only going to get worse?
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.