Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Bert on 02-09-10
I thought business competition was good for the economy?! If Mr. Kramer feels he is losing customers to a street vendor,,,he might want to look at his operation and figure out how to win those customers back!!
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By mitch on 02-09-10
setting up a mobile temporary food stand neighboring existing business’ that serve food products is just plain rude and greedy. Definately should not be allowed.
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By emerson on 02-09-10
If people want to buy a pizza from a street vendor what makes Phil Mitchell and Turner Askew so wise to tell people what they can or can’t buy?
Mr Kramer should just be a better competitor. He would do well selling pizza and products out of the front of his store. Maybe it will require some adaptation and change on his part. He obviously isn’t providing the market what the market wants.
Instead of spending your time trying to force your competitor out of business through your good ‘ol boy connections, he should spend more time trying to compete with a better product.
If anything, this proves that Turner Askew and Phil Mitchell are anything but pro-business, pro-free markets and pro-competition.
They appear to be pro-business as long as that business is part of their “good ‘ol boy network.“
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By hammer on 02-09-10
You wonder what the Toggery, Stumptown Snowboards,etc and other retailers would think if temporary outdoor gear sales started on the street corner would think. I think these businesses are the ones supporting the local economy, the little leagues, the non profit organizations that exist. I don’t think these temps don’t contribute anything compared to the fixed businesses. Kramer donates a heck alot of money to the community.
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By mitch on 02-09-10
Indeed, the people do have their choice. However, if they really want this, they will be more than willing to go down the street a couple of blocks. This mobile stand is infringing on the customer base the existing business’ have built. Let him build his own without taking advantage of someone else’s hard work. Mr Kramer must be a pretty good business man already if someone attempts to make a business by stealing his customers. Is the pizza guy going to contribute to the license, fees, insurances, etc these existing business pay?
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By hammer on 02-09-10
I have an idea, let’s open a computer and technology vendor right in front of emerson’s so called computer and technology location with numerous employees. That would be great for business.
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By emerson on 02-09-10
Hammer - you are completely misrepresenting the facts and reality here (as usual).
A vendor must set up on private property with the owner’s permission (nobody setting up directly in front of you on the street as you are making it sound like). They also must have all the licenses and permits as any other business.
Who are you to tell a private property owner that they can’t sell pizza on their property just because the guy kiddie corner doesn’t want the competition?
You talk a big game about free markets, but you really crumble into a heap of silliness when confronted with reality. How can we take you and your ideas seriously when you are so inconsistent?
Should Coffee traders have protested to the city council and tried to force Mr Kramer from opening the Red Caboose because they sold coffee and didn’t want someone across the street selling coffee too?
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By Franklin on 02-09-10
This country was founded on the free-enterprise system, for crying out loud. If someone wants to set up a mobile stand, make it possible for him/her to do it (with reasonable regulations).
If their product is good people will buy it and it will stimulate better competition. If their product is bad, people won’t buy it and the vendor will be down the road. What’s everyone so afraid of? That someone else might have a chance to produce? Gee, what a novel concept.
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By howard on 02-09-10
I think the most interesting thing to be brought to light during last week’s council meeting was the timeline: Second Street Pizza applied for and began operating the pizza stand at night after The Red Caboose discontinued late-night operations. The rumor is that they lost their contract with the railroad, but the reason is unimportant. The fact is, the Red Caboose wasn’t serving food when bar-goers wanted food, so someone else started providing it.
At some point later, The Red Caboose decided to re-commence late-night operation but no longer enjoyed a sight-line monopoly among bar patrons who were headed home.
From at least one perspective, the pizza stand is the incumbent here, as they have been serving food late-night for a longer consecutive period of time than The Red Caboose.
Perhaps Mr. Sheeran should be seeking legal injunctions against Mr. Kramer for unfair competition. After all, The Red Caboose has waitresses, tables, chairs, bathrooms, more than one dish on the menu, and can serve alcohol. How could a simple little pizza stand possibly compete with all that?
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By hammer on 02-09-10
I don’t think any of you value what local businesses contribute to the local enconomy. Businesses make communities roll. That is what is most important. Emerson, if I had permission from a land owner next to your business to sell tech parts and tech service directly competing against your so called business, what would you say?
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By emerson on 02-09-10
I wouldn’t say anything Hammer (as long as you were following the law).
I would invest my time in doing a better job than you: provide more value, better service, more innovative products and I would make everyone want to use my business instead of yours.
I would out-compete you. I wouldn’t go whining to my good ‘ol boy friends on the City Council (Turner Askew and Phil Mitchell).
I think it is silly that these guys run around talking about being pro-business and pro free-market - but when the rubber meets the road, they’re all hat and no cattle.
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By fishrider on 02-09-10
Hammer, the pizza dude contributes to many community functions through his brick and mortar restaurant, duh. If there is a need fill it . if there is an appetite, feed it. Stimulate business and let the people(the market) decide. Emerson, sorry i accidently gave you a thumbs down on that last comment. It should score on up one down.
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By JB on 02-09-10
@emerson - for once, I am in complete agreement with you. Businesses competing for business benefits everybody - from the consumers who buy products and services to the businesses themselves. It is the foundation of a free market - and the very thing that will create jobs and save our economy, if only our government would let it.
Complaining about someone else down the block (or road) who does the same business better than you do is like telling Lowe’s to shut down because there is a Home Depot across the street - both businesses benefit. There hasn’t been a day where I have not seen the parking lots of both Lowe’s and Home Depot filled with the vehicles of customers during business hours - and not just Kalispell, either.
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By mitch on 02-10-10
I stopped by Lowes last week, midweek, midday. Parking lot was quite empty, as was store. I’ve often wondered just how they can both make it.
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By BLUSKY on 02-10-10
Fishtown has always been too good for the rif-raf and the little guy. I stopped shopping there many years ago because I couldn’t see anything but the bottom of peoples nostrils. Free enterprise means nothing to the “social elite”.
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By dsrobins on 02-14-10
My understanding is that Lowe’s was created by the ex-wife of Home Depot’s CEO. She hates his guts and vowed to run him out of business. She makes a point of setting up her Lowe’s stores as close to Home Depot’s as she can. Speaking for myself, I’ve found the service and prices at Lowe’s beat Home Depot hollow, but it is true that times are tough for all home center stores nowadays thanks to GWBush and his criminal gang.
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By Kalispell Native on 02-14-10
dsrobins: you might want to check with snopes.com about that Lowe’s/HD legend.
Nice tale, but everyone knows Snopes.com takes payoffs from prominent folks to publicize their version of events. Snopes ranks right up there with Fox News.
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Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Bert on 02-09-10
I thought business competition was good for the economy?! If Mr. Kramer feels he is losing customers to a street vendor,,,he might want to look at his operation and figure out how to win those customers back!!
By mitch on 02-09-10
setting up a mobile temporary food stand neighboring existing business’ that serve food products is just plain rude and greedy. Definately should not be allowed.
By emerson on 02-09-10
If people want to buy a pizza from a street vendor what makes Phil Mitchell and Turner Askew so wise to tell people what they can or can’t buy?
Mr Kramer should just be a better competitor. He would do well selling pizza and products out of the front of his store. Maybe it will require some adaptation and change on his part. He obviously isn’t providing the market what the market wants.
Instead of spending your time trying to force your competitor out of business through your good ‘ol boy connections, he should spend more time trying to compete with a better product.
If anything, this proves that Turner Askew and Phil Mitchell are anything but pro-business, pro-free markets and pro-competition.
They appear to be pro-business as long as that business is part of their “good ‘ol boy network.“
By hammer on 02-09-10
You wonder what the Toggery, Stumptown Snowboards,etc and other retailers would think if temporary outdoor gear sales started on the street corner would think. I think these businesses are the ones supporting the local economy, the little leagues, the non profit organizations that exist. I don’t think these temps don’t contribute anything compared to the fixed businesses. Kramer donates a heck alot of money to the community.
By mitch on 02-09-10
Indeed, the people do have their choice. However, if they really want this, they will be more than willing to go down the street a couple of blocks. This mobile stand is infringing on the customer base the existing business’ have built. Let him build his own without taking advantage of someone else’s hard work. Mr Kramer must be a pretty good business man already if someone attempts to make a business by stealing his customers. Is the pizza guy going to contribute to the license, fees, insurances, etc these existing business pay?
By hammer on 02-09-10
I have an idea, let’s open a computer and technology vendor right in front of emerson’s so called computer and technology location with numerous employees. That would be great for business.
By emerson on 02-09-10
Hammer - you are completely misrepresenting the facts and reality here (as usual).
A vendor must set up on private property with the owner’s permission (nobody setting up directly in front of you on the street as you are making it sound like). They also must have all the licenses and permits as any other business.
Who are you to tell a private property owner that they can’t sell pizza on their property just because the guy kiddie corner doesn’t want the competition?
You talk a big game about free markets, but you really crumble into a heap of silliness when confronted with reality. How can we take you and your ideas seriously when you are so inconsistent?
Should Coffee traders have protested to the city council and tried to force Mr Kramer from opening the Red Caboose because they sold coffee and didn’t want someone across the street selling coffee too?
By Franklin on 02-09-10
This country was founded on the free-enterprise system, for crying out loud. If someone wants to set up a mobile stand, make it possible for him/her to do it (with reasonable regulations).
If their product is good people will buy it and it will stimulate better competition. If their product is bad, people won’t buy it and the vendor will be down the road. What’s everyone so afraid of? That someone else might have a chance to produce? Gee, what a novel concept.
By howard on 02-09-10
I think the most interesting thing to be brought to light during last week’s council meeting was the timeline: Second Street Pizza applied for and began operating the pizza stand at night after The Red Caboose discontinued late-night operations. The rumor is that they lost their contract with the railroad, but the reason is unimportant. The fact is, the Red Caboose wasn’t serving food when bar-goers wanted food, so someone else started providing it.
At some point later, The Red Caboose decided to re-commence late-night operation but no longer enjoyed a sight-line monopoly among bar patrons who were headed home.
From at least one perspective, the pizza stand is the incumbent here, as they have been serving food late-night for a longer consecutive period of time than The Red Caboose.
Perhaps Mr. Sheeran should be seeking legal injunctions against Mr. Kramer for unfair competition. After all, The Red Caboose has waitresses, tables, chairs, bathrooms, more than one dish on the menu, and can serve alcohol. How could a simple little pizza stand possibly compete with all that?
By hammer on 02-09-10
I don’t think any of you value what local businesses contribute to the local enconomy. Businesses make communities roll. That is what is most important. Emerson, if I had permission from a land owner next to your business to sell tech parts and tech service directly competing against your so called business, what would you say?
By emerson on 02-09-10
I wouldn’t say anything Hammer (as long as you were following the law).
I would invest my time in doing a better job than you: provide more value, better service, more innovative products and I would make everyone want to use my business instead of yours.
I would out-compete you. I wouldn’t go whining to my good ‘ol boy friends on the City Council (Turner Askew and Phil Mitchell).
I think it is silly that these guys run around talking about being pro-business and pro free-market - but when the rubber meets the road, they’re all hat and no cattle.
By fishrider on 02-09-10
Hammer, the pizza dude contributes to many community functions through his brick and mortar restaurant, duh. If there is a need fill it . if there is an appetite, feed it. Stimulate business and let the people(the market) decide. Emerson, sorry i accidently gave you a thumbs down on that last comment. It should score on up one down.
By JB on 02-09-10
@emerson - for once, I am in complete agreement with you. Businesses competing for business benefits everybody - from the consumers who buy products and services to the businesses themselves. It is the foundation of a free market - and the very thing that will create jobs and save our economy, if only our government would let it.
Complaining about someone else down the block (or road) who does the same business better than you do is like telling Lowe’s to shut down because there is a Home Depot across the street - both businesses benefit. There hasn’t been a day where I have not seen the parking lots of both Lowe’s and Home Depot filled with the vehicles of customers during business hours - and not just Kalispell, either.
By mitch on 02-10-10
I stopped by Lowes last week, midweek, midday. Parking lot was quite empty, as was store. I’ve often wondered just how they can both make it.
By BLUSKY on 02-10-10
Fishtown has always been too good for the rif-raf and the little guy. I stopped shopping there many years ago because I couldn’t see anything but the bottom of peoples nostrils. Free enterprise means nothing to the “social elite”.
By dsrobins on 02-14-10
My understanding is that Lowe’s was created by the ex-wife of Home Depot’s CEO. She hates his guts and vowed to run him out of business. She makes a point of setting up her Lowe’s stores as close to Home Depot’s as she can. Speaking for myself, I’ve found the service and prices at Lowe’s beat Home Depot hollow, but it is true that times are tough for all home center stores nowadays thanks to GWBush and his criminal gang.
By Kalispell Native on 02-14-10
dsrobins: you might want to check with snopes.com about that Lowe’s/HD legend.
http://www.snopes.com/business/revenge/lowes.asp
By dsrobins on 02-15-10
Nice tale, but everyone knows Snopes.com takes payoffs from prominent folks to publicize their version of events. Snopes ranks right up there with Fox News.