Wednesday Apr. 23, 2014
Comments on:
After denying permit for historical statue, supervisor withdraws decision
Let’s be civil.
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By HP on 10-25-11 @ 4:58 am
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I guess this group of intolerants has no empathy for any defenders of our country.  I am not of the Christian faith but I sure support the majority of Americans who are and who were the majority of Americans who lost their lives defending our way of life.
By RussCrowder on 10-25-11 @ 5:58 am
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When it comes to the establishment of religion, the Federal Government pretty much sticks to establishing Islamic states in the middle east.
By patchem on 10-25-11 @ 6:41 am
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I’m sure the Feds want it removed so they can build a Mosque in its place…
By Eileen Wright on 10-25-11 @ 7:44 am
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“A Wisconsin-based organization called Freedom from Religion Foundation, which according to its website represents “atheists, agnostics and skeptics,” issued an Oct. 20 release taking credit for persuading the Forest Service to deny the 10-year permit renewal.”

“Think globally, act locally” - isn’t that what they say?
By Charlie Tarpley on 10-25-11 @ 10:16 am
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The majority of citizens in the United States are Christian and a considerable number of us have served in the U.S. military. It is my opinion that it is time for the views of the majority of the citizens of this country to be used to establish commonly accepted practices, unless such views are clearly prejudicial and “anti-American”. At this point in time it appears that a hostile minority is attempting to impose its will on all of us. Because the majority of us have been silent, the views of a clear minority of our citizens have been trampling the views of the majority. Let’s be clear, I like the statue, and my father and my uncles were in World War II. I want the stutue left where it is.
By a on 10-25-11 @ 10:59 am
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I don’t mind the statue, it has history and personality. I just hope that all religions and non-religions can have the same privilege.

What I don’t like is thinking that my elected officials are passing the buck to a “god”. I think they should be solving problems and governing with reality, instead of what they want to think is there.
By anne on 10-25-11 @ 11:11 am
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Leave the statue where it is, and where it has been.
By Native on 10-25-11 @ 11:18 am
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It is really interesting listening to the right on issues like these.  They seem to split their political activism 50/50 between defending the constitution and defending christianity.  So which is it?  If you think it is alright to have a religeous icon on government owned land than you disagree with the 1st Ammendment; you know, the one that our founders felt was the most important.

Charlie Tarpley:  your statement is very scary.  A long time ago, millions of people risked and lost their lives in order to seperate themselve from their home country because they didn’t want to be told how to worship.  You have the exact same frame of mind that England became famous for: everybody must conform to the christian majority.  Maybe we should start a modern day crusades and just start wiping out anyone that doesn’t pay homage to an “acceptable” church.

I might be Christian I’d rather live in a country of athiest than evangelicals.
By nkalanaga on 10-25-11 @ 11:33 am
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Never having been to Big Mountain, I’ve never seen the statue.  My question is:  Does it have any clearly religious inscriptions or markings? 

If it’s just a “statue of Jesus”, how does that differ from a “statue of Herbert Hoover”?  Even most atheists agree that there probably was a person named Jesus in what’s now Palestine about 2000 years ago.
By Native on 10-25-11 @ 12:02 pm
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Its a pretty worn down statue that you probably wouldn’t see if you weren’t looking for it. 

“...how does that differ from a ‘statue of Herbert Hoover’”.  Really?  How many wars have been fought over Herbert Hoovers ideology?  Its obviously a religeous symbol.  And sensativity to this type of thing is on the rise with the political climate the way it is. Republicans are in constant torment because Jesus was a socialist who was very clear that the pathway to Heaven includes taking care of the poor smile
By Charlie Tarpley on 10-25-11 @ 12:29 pm
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So, let’s see. Someone disagrees with me so I am arbitrarily assumed to be a member of “the right”, wich is supposed to automatically make me wrong. Well, guess again and you might come closer to reality, assuming that it really matter to you. As to being either in favor of the constitution or a Christian, guess again. I am not one or the other, but both. Surprised? I am constantly amazed that pseudo-intellectuals like to pick out pieces of statements and then attack them so they can be twisted to meet their own fantasy views. Our forefathers were not so inclined to separate church and state as seems popular today, but that is frequently conviently overlooked. Check our currency to see if you can find any reference to God on our official tender.

As to what my frame of mind is, what pool of wisdom have you tapped into to hazard a guess? Once again some tak a point, mix it with their own agenda and political pablum to arrive at an assumed and previously determined conclusion. s to whether or not you or I are or may be Christians, that’s not really for either of us to determine, and neither of us can really tell. As to where you may wish to live, I, unlike you, choose to live here. If you would really prefer to live in an atheistic country, you have the right to choose and to move.
By cs1 on 10-25-11 @ 12:43 pm
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I’ve seen it and I like it, but case law doesn’t back it staying.
By ICallB.S. on 10-25-11 @ 2:36 pm
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I guess if the first guy that tries to remove it gets struck by lightning, that will settle the religious question. Then again, there may be no God and nothing will happen….
By bocephusj57 on 10-25-11 @ 3:03 pm
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I hope all the high-minded, self-righteous bible beaters enjoy their parties this weekend and the kiddie candy grabs on Monday as they celebrate the Pagan/Celtic Holy Day of Halloween.

The statue needs to be removed from gubmint land.
By Westside2 on 10-25-11 @ 4:27 pm
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Their is no inherent right to maintain a statue of Jesus on public land.  It would be different if more people really understood the message of Jesus.
By nkalanaga on 10-25-11 @ 5:59 pm
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Native:  I agree that more wars have been fought over religious figures than over Herbert Hoover.

My question, and point, was that, if there is no religious message on the statue, then how do we know who it represents?  I’ve met several people named Jesus who didn’t claim to be the leader of a religion.

If it HAS a religious message, that’s another matter, and it becomes a religious statue.
By bocephusj57 on 10-25-11 @ 7:14 pm
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nkalanaga:

Take a look at this article.  It’s pretty clear stereotypical rendition.

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/jesus_saved/21761/
By nkalanaga on 10-25-11 @ 8:43 pm
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I’d seen the picture, but still don’t agree that a statue of a man in ancient clothing automatically equals a religious statue.  For those who don’t worship Jesus, unless it has a religious message, it’s just a statue.

Having a concrete Buddha in my garden doesn’t make me a Buddhist.
By bocephusj57 on 10-25-11 @ 8:52 pm
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Your garden isn’t Federal land, is it?

But since you can recognize a concrete Buddha as a rendition of a religious figure then it’s not a stretch to look at the statue on Big Mtn. as a popular and readily recognizable rendition of a christian religious figure either.

The message is borne within the statue’s existence to anyone even vaguely aware of the popular renditions of the appearance of known religious representatives.  Right down to the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s beatific noodles and meatballs.
By CREEPINGDEATH13 on 10-25-11 @ 10:34 pm
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What gets me is all the different religions that say they believe in “God”, yet yall can’t get along! The statue was put there to honor OUR World War II Vets. Maybe he should be holding a .50 cal. If you don’t like to see Jesus on Big Mountain, then go ski or hike somewhere else! The gene pool could use some chlorine!!
By Native on 10-26-11 @ 6:00 am
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Charley Tarpley: I only directed my second paragraph to you.  Sorry for the confusion.  I did not assume you are a member of the “right”.  Just so you know, “In God we Trust” was not added to US coins until 1864 and it didn’t show up on the dollar bill until 1957.  The founders were in fact God fearing men but they had already witnessed what happens when Government starts preferring one church or religeon over another.  Any of us could come out on the wrong side of that one.  We could have a Mormon president, are you ready to convert?
By Mark W. on 10-26-11 @ 12:26 pm
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We are toast. 

Can’t wait to see Montanans standing around watching as Government goons come and remove their icons.  All in the name of freedom, don’t you know.
By Firebeam on 10-26-11 @ 1:01 pm
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If this were a request to newly install the statue, then no, I don’t think its an appropriate location. BUT, the statue is there, has been for a lot of years, and has become a special piece for many people. Those that seek it’s removal have no vested interest in it except to push an agenda; those people ought to find better things to do with their time. Leave it be…it’s an appreciated part of the mountain and not hurting anyone or anything anymore than the church on the corner of my street.

I am spiritual, but I follow no organized religion.  I made that choice because more people have died (been killed) in the name of religion than for any other cause.  My “religion” is for the past 17 years, getting up at all hours of the day and night and going to the aid of anyone who needs it….I’m a volunteer firefighter. We pray every day that our efforts make a difference in the lives of the people we help.
By Slim Stout on 10-26-11 @ 1:39 pm
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Arlington National Cemetery has thousands of crosses - should they be removed as well? The statue is a memorial to the men who fought for our freedom. The freedom from being told how to worship, and from being persecuted for worshiping.  The statue is a piece of history. It should stay, despite the fact that most Christians would agree that making graven images of God goes against the scriptures. Being an Isreali Jew, Jesus probably did not have brown hair and blue eyes.  So we can safely say its just a historic sculpture of a hippie guy in a blue robe, not an actual representation of Jesus Christ.
By bocephusj57 on 10-26-11 @ 2:58 pm
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{facepalm}  Arlington is designated as a cemetery.

One of these things is not (at all) like the other.

There are more than 30 ‘faith symbols’ authorized for use at Arlington, including Pentacles.

Arlington is inclusive, this statue is solely christian.
By Eileen Wright on 10-26-11 @ 4:25 pm
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I have a (somewhat queasy) feeling that this would not be happening if the icon in question was an Islamic Crescent and star.
By bocephusj57 on 10-26-11 @ 4:45 pm
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I’m sure the rightwingnuts would be happy to compromise and put a pointy white hood over his head.  At least then he would seem more familiar to them.
By Mark W. on 10-26-11 @ 5:38 pm
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Or we could satisfy the loony left by painting it red and putting horns, wings, fangs and flames on it.  And having it dispense free money.
By bocephusj57 on 10-26-11 @ 9:23 pm
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Lame
By Mark W. on 10-27-11 @ 8:25 am
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How about an aborted baby then?
By Mark W. on 10-27-11 @ 9:21 am
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I know…  A grade school teacher putting a prophylactic on a banana.
By Passin through on 10-27-11 @ 9:58 am
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They have the right to say they want it gone..others have the right to say it should stay, I’m in this group for many reasons, one being if anyone gets a good feeling to see it when they are sking and since the only way to see it is to TRAVEL to it. then I think a person who wants it gone is behaving badly why should they beable to take away something that may do good.

This is abit like the deal on wishing someone a Merry Christmas, until it was said you *should* not do this you were to wish everyone a Happy Holiday…I didn’t keep track of how many times I did it, now I make sure I wish everyone a Merry Christmas in stores ( a public place) Libraries ( a public place)  any events for the towns (Public places) Yes we have freedom of speech you can say what you want,I can say what I want,and we may disagree, but you do not have the right to tell me I can not say or see something
,that is my choice.
By hotfishmt on 10-27-11 @ 11:46 am
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I wonder if the Athiest that are protesting the statue….just before falling off a high cliff….HOLLAR….Oh My God ????

Hypocrites are worse than the Devil itself. So…stay back in Wisconsin & let your off base law suits….drown in the heavy snow while you ponder what else is wrong here in Montana….I think we need the Border Patrol to stop all cars from Wisconsin from entering Montana…from spreading Hoof & Mouth Disease.
By voss on 10-27-11 @ 12:42 pm
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It’s ugly.  Please get rid of it.
By mooseberryinn on 10-28-11 @ 4:27 pm
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Ya know, I’ll bet if it were a statue of obama it could stay.  Historically speaking, Jesus has been a revered figure for over 2000 years, for billions of people.  The rest of the world probably doesn’t have a problem with a statue that’s been out in a forest for over 50 years, but some bozos from Wisconsin do.  I’d say renew the lease for another 100 years just to irritate those Wisconsin folks. After all, when they come to visit they’ll be contributing to our tourist trade.
By a on 10-28-11 @ 5:30 pm
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That’s an eye roller. Oh please, can’t you at least try to do better? Ok, I know I am asking a lot for you to think bigger and that is difficult for you, but we are bored with the tact of Obama this and Obama that.
By Mark Phillips on 10-28-11 @ 6:19 pm
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Photo shop the picture, send it to Wisconsin and tell them we apologize for supporting the Detroit Redwings.
By April on 10-29-11 @ 7:49 pm
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I am an atheist who has no issue with the statue.I want it to stay. I think it is a nice landmark to use when skiing Big Mountain and a chance for me to explain to my 7 year old about the history of Christianity and Jesus.

Would I want it if it was a star of David or some sort of Islamic symbol? No. And you all know why….........lol
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 1:18 pm
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Great!  Let’s turn back the clock then.  And while we’re at it let’s bring back prayer in school and restrictions on divorce and abortion.
By mooseberryinn on 10-30-11 @ 3:21 pm
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human psych - generally it is the weak minded people with negative self image who become attackers of other’s belief.  To insult and belittle people of moral standing somehow makes their self-image no so bad.  Curious how that works and is so often notable here.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 3:51 pm
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But wasn’t it because of the communists in the 1950s that Christians became overt in their faith?
By Eileen Wright on 10-30-11 @ 4:34 pm
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moose - Well said.

A lot of people seem prone to psychological projection.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 6:05 pm
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When religion ruled the world, it was known as The Dark Ages.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 6:13 pm
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Religion always rules.  It just depends on whose.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 7:01 pm
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That’s why this country must be vigilant in keeping the Talibangelicals and christo-fascists out of government and policy making.
By boredinkali on 10-30-11 @ 7:10 pm
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if you keep it put a star and crescent next to it. its only fair to represent all fairy tales
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 7:17 pm
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Don’t forget a Star of David and an actual pair of crossed sticks.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 7:21 pm
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80% of Americans consider themselves Christian. you want to take their statues and deprive them of self-determination in government and policy making.

Who is the fascist again?
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 7:30 pm
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Albert Einstein.  Not one of the 80%.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 7:35 pm
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When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag, waving the cross, and preaching free markets.  Unkn.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 7:38 pm
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Why do you hate Jews, Mark?
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 7:46 pm
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No argument here.  It has always been generally accepted that America could only be destroyed from within. 

Oh, I see your logic.  Since you’re not wrapped in the flag, not waving the cross and not preaching free markets you’re not fascist?  Even though you’re concerned with taking the people’s symbols and making sure their worldview is not represented in government or policy making?  Got it.  Thanks for clearing that up.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 7:47 pm
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LOL.  I knew that was coming.  Why did you wait so long?
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 7:55 pm
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Separation of church and state, Mark.

You might want to re-acquaint yourself with that concept.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:03 pm
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Then why is the Forest Service taking comments?
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:10 pm
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Carl Sagan.  Not one of the 80%.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:11 pm
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For people persisting in delusion, the 80% built a decent country.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:22 pm
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At least you come right out and admit your primary goal is tearing the people away from their faith.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 8:33 pm
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I guess the only full deck you’re playing with is full of white, male religious victim cards.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:35 pm
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Sorry.  You lost me on that one.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:39 pm
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They swam in Christian culture. 

I don’t expect scientists to believe in God.  I expect reasonable people to respect the folkways of the majority.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 8:46 pm
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Religion, by it’s very nature is a top-down oligarchy.  The sheeple must blindly follow their Judas goat.  Not much different than being a tea bagger.

There is nothing small d democratic about organized religions.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:48 pm
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That’s your opinion.

80% of Americans have a different opinion.  More if you include non-Christian religions. 

Do you really think you’re going to be the guy that finally frees humanity from their belief in God?
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 8:58 pm
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“They swam in it and utterly rejected the belief in a god.”

Yet they did so without asking the cities and towns that hosted them to take their religious symbols off of public property.

“As for respect, we expect christians to respect the first ammendment as interpreted by our courts. Religious symbols belong on private property.”

It’s an evolving doctrine.
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 9:01 pm
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Besides, as the overwhelming majority, the First Amendment is ours, the courts are ours, the country is ours.  And I want to keep them.
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 9:03 pm
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So you’re a rightwingnut who believes the Constitution is, indeed, a living document?  And, you believe in evolution?
By Mark W. on 10-30-11 @ 9:05 pm
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What’s your point?
By bocephusj57 on 10-30-11 @ 9:17 pm
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You never were successful playing dodgeball were you?
By a on 10-31-11 @ 5:51 am
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Put a mustache and an ill fitting jacket and call it REHBERG.
By Charles Feney on 10-31-11 @ 6:01 am
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Veterans fer Jesus dot com

Jesus saves
Moses Invests
Mohammed hates interest
Buddha hates excess
But of all of the demigods
out in the west
Montana’s Denny Rehberg
panders the best!

When Denny senses an election is coming
His pandering machine is sure to be humming
If he finds an issue
That has you reachin’ for a tissue
You can bet ol’ Denny for votes’ll be chumming

Denny goes out of his way to please the far right
If it’s a matter trivial, he’s fit for the fight!
But on problems important
Denny shows inept deportment
‘Cause Denny’s the bulb that doesn’t shed light!
_______________________________
Charles Ulysses Feney
By a on 10-31-11 @ 6:05 am
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Beautiful, I have to find a tissue.
By boredinkali on 10-31-11 @ 7:17 am
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let me get this straight, christians are crying persecution? even though they are the majority, and every prez has been a member of their middle eastern mythology? give me a break
By boredinkali on 10-31-11 @ 7:20 am
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the statue is ugly. it looks like a giant ceramic nic-nack from grandma’s shelf. if it were a statue of any other religion it would never be allowed
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 10:12 am
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This site is heavily censored. All of my posts were deleted and my account deactivated.

Could someone tell me why??
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 10:27 am
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I guess descenters will be eradicated! The mind police are in control.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 10:47 am
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The press controls the minds of the people by controlling what is discussed and printed.
By Mark W. on 10-31-11 @ 10:52 am
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“The press controls the minds of the people by controlling what is discussed and printed.”

And most of what is discussed and printed has nothing to do with Christianity, so you shouldn’t have much to worry about.

Interesting about your comments, though.  I found nothing offensive there and enjoyed our discussion.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 10:57 am
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I did too Mark.
However I checked an hour ago and found all of my posts deleted and my account closed. Very strange since I was not aware that I said anything offensive. Nor did I personally attack anyone.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 10:58 am
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I also received no private email explaining the reason for the censorship.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 11:19 am
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“By Mark W. on 10-31-11
Interesting about your comments, though.  I found nothing offensive there and enjoyed our discussion.”

It is interesting that you say this since virtually all of my comments were part of our discussion and you did not take offense. Someone at the paper must disagree with my opinion.
By Mark W. on 10-31-11 @ 11:41 am
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My only thought is that your comments were quashed because instead of couching your arguments in terms of First Amendment doctrine, you couched it in terms of hating religion, which you said “bamboozles” people.  When TPTB tear the people away from their beloved faith, they aren’t suppose to know it’s because they hate religion.  It’s supposed to be simply because that’s our law, and the law is the law. 

You were too honest.  The honesty I commended you for got you in trouble.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 11:41 am
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I believe that as more and more americans become outspoken about their lack of belief in the supernatural it will become more accepted. 
There are atheists everywhere. For a very long time they have been vilified by the religious. You want respect, so do we. Atheists are just as moral as the religious. They contribute just as much to society as the religious. As more people become outspoken and point out the need for proof of the extraordinary claims made by religion more americans will question these beliefs.
All I try to do is to point out to people that they should be just as skeptical about religious beliefs as they are about other beliefs in their life. Do you trust politicians? Then why trust preachers? Question everything, then ask yourself if you are satisfied with the answers.
“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear” - Thomas Jefferson
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 11:53 am
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I never said that I hate religion. I do believe that religion is a giant con, however I believe people have a right to believe anything that they like. I just fight against the government choosing sides.

If I try to change someone’s mind about the supernatural it will be through discussion, not by using force.

I don’t understand the belief in the supernatural. There are many things that I do not understand. I have never had a need to “make up” answers to these questions. I will wait until we learn more, and science is the best tool that we can use to increase our knowledge of the universe and how it works.
By Mark W. on 10-31-11 @ 12:23 pm
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Either way, the government is choosing sides.
By Martin on 10-31-11 @ 12:56 pm
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I see it differently. I am not asking the government to put up signs saying “God is just pretend” or “Religion is delusion”. I am asking the government to stay out of the discussion.
By MJ Dean on 11-03-11 @ 1:45 pm
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The controversy over the Jesus statue, Christian prayers at veteran’s memorial services, graduation services, the 9/11 ceremony are all to be expected.  Scripture tells us that the time will come when people will not listen to truth.  “But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.” and “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers’ and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”  (2 Timothy 3:19 and
4:3-4).  This isn’t about removing a statue…it’s about removing every reminder that Jesus is the Savior of all who follow Him—and the Judge of all who chose to not follow Him. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.  MJ
By dw_duck on 11-03-11 @ 4:06 pm
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That statue is Jesus? I thought it was that guy that sings for Nickelback….
By Eileen Wright on 11-03-11 @ 4:35 pm
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I wonder if a St. Christopher statue would create the same controversy.
By BiggerMig on 11-03-11 @ 6:59 pm
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I’ve always thought it was a frozen hippie.  Leave the statue!  It makes for a good jib.
By Mark W. on 11-03-11 @ 9:31 pm
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Martin says:
“I see it differently. I am not asking the government to put up signs saying “God is just pretend” or “Religion is delusion”. I am asking the government to stay out of the discussion.”

I am also asking government to stay out the discussion.
By Gabby Johnson on 11-04-11 @ 7:00 am
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Why not replace the statue with one of Muhammad? That will kill two birds with one stone because it will upset the so-called “Christians” who want to impose their faith on everyone at taxpayers’ expense, and it will rile up the Muslims, who reject images of their prophet.
And we can all use it for target practice.
By Martin on 11-04-11 @ 11:31 pm
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“By Mark W. on 11-03-11
I am also asking government to stay out the discussion.”

Then we agree, there should be no religious symbols or discussion on government property or by government officials.

Keep religion a private matter. Each of us left to reach our own decisions about personal beliefs.
By jthorn on 11-21-11 @ 11:21 am
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The Constitution of the United States says that “Congress shall not establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof.” Removing the statue is prohibiting the free exercise thereof.  These non believers want nothing but to prohibit the free exercise of Christianity.  I think they are scared.
 
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