Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Leg. Watcher on 03-30-09
So when will the Beacon do a story on Ryan Zinke and his family’s business in the gravel trade? He’s openly admitted to such in committee hearings, yet no one has touched this issue?
Isn’t there something ethically wrong with voting and advocating on the gravel issues and DEQ permitting when your family’s money is tied up in the issue? I guess that’s why he ran for office in the first place though…
Just wondering.
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By Dave Skinner on 03-30-09
Leg, why is it wrong to advocate for your own advancement, yet completely cool to advocate to prevent others from their own advancement?
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By mitch on 03-30-09
It is wrong when the one doing the advancing has no concern of the damage he is causing (or has already caused) to his neighbors and their well being, worth of their property, etc. It’s all about greed.
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By PGirl on 03-30-09
My thoughts: Is the Zinke family business bordering a National Park? I wonder about 22 gravel trucks a day up and down Belton Stage? The highway through that area is horrible anyway, but to add that much more traffic? Also, what is the noise level with a gravel pit? I have heard comments for years on the noise pollution caused by a helicopter flying over once in awhile. And my thoughts are with the neighbors, if this business was closed down in the 90’s, they assumed it was not a working gravel pit any longer. Maybe Mr. Spoklie should have to buy them out, fair market value….before you factor in the loss of having a gravel pit for a neighbor. Then they could buy property on the hillside in Martin City.
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By Dave Skinner on 03-30-09
No, Mitch,
You’re saying it’s right when it’s the foundation and roadways to YOUR house. How valuable would your property be if you were stuck with laying down corduroy for your drive, and using a foundation of old railroad ties?
I’m stunned, again, by the unilateralist attitude people have towards “rights.“ Mine always, yours never? What a shame.
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By mitch on 03-30-09
What?? I have no idea what you just said there? The neighbors bought their properties, built their homes and established their lives next to an “abandoned” gravel pit. Then someone sees an opportunity to make some bucks to fill his own pockets and to heck with the mess he is causing for everyone else. He’ll take what he can, and be out of there, leaving the mess for someone else to deal with. If we all led our lives looking for what we could do with our “rights” instead of a little common sense and love for their fellow man, what a sad pathetic life we would lead.
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By golden rule on 03-30-09
it’s simply a case of the American Golden Rule - those w/ the gold make the rules and the rest of us who try to play by the rules are shown for the fools I suppose we are…
The pit was closed down. It was 2 acres.
And if anyone has driven on Belton Stage road then you’d know that is an accident waiting to happen. AND of course when it does it won’t be the gravel truck that pays the price -
So trash the road, affect tourism, degrade the water quality, create a mess you won’t clean up, degrade the neighborhood, all for a short term buck at the PUBLICS expense. ALL because of WHO YOU KNOW ONLY!
Go ahead and do it but don’t tell us it was all above board and done fair and square. YOU jobbed the system!
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By PGirl on 03-30-09
Just heard a “rumor” that GNP is getting the gravel for the road construction from THAT source? Wow! Talk about pooping in your own back yard? And I also heard that 22 trucks a day is a “small” estimate. Anyone know the truth?
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By Fair Row on 03-31-09
It will be quite interesting to see what position GNP takes on the gravel pit. Many of the questions posed in the above comments might be answered as well as raising new questions.
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By Question? on 03-31-09
Is Dave Skinner the guy that used to try to sell advertising for John Stokes down at the Wedge-600?
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By Tox on 03-31-09
This gravel pit is exemplary in small of what is ruining and trashing local communities all over our country: Corporations and/or “developers” with deep $ pockets moving in to extract wealth at the cost of and against the will of the existing local community….All should kowtow to the pipe dream of unrestricted property rights and the fullfulment individuals’ greed, and while we’re at it let’s go ahead and trash the environment too, since environmental regulations are bad for business. —
Here we have a “developer” come in to run and expand a small closed down gravel pit in a beautiful, quiet residential area right next to GNP and a Wild & Scenic River corridor, where local regulations have been set up to prevent precisely this kind of operation. —
But hey, Spoklie’s rights were “grandfathered” because the original permit was issued in March 1991, just one before the regulations took effect, exempting his gravel mine from local zoning. And now he wants to expand it from 2 to 24 acres….Never mind that the gravel pit had not been operational for more than a decade. Never mind all terrible noise generated in the area. Never mind all the dust created and spread in the vicinity. Never mind using 10’000s gallons of water daily for washing. Never mind all the added big truck traffic on a small residential country road. Never mind that this area is a frequented and appreciated wildlife corridor. Never mind that it is completely against the will of the local community.
To hell with the locals and the peaceful community!
Greed and property rights trumps all that.
God bless America!
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By Tox on 03-31-09
That should read:
“...the original permit was issued in March 1991, just one MONTH before the regulations took effect…“
in the above post.
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By Fair Row on 03-31-09
Doesn’t Dusty Dupont live in the residential area affected by this gravel pit ?
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By Dave Skinner on 04-01-09
Question?
No.
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By freeMONTANA on 04-01-09
It’s his land and he has the right to use it. But the cost to improve Belton Stage to facilitate gravel trucks should be paid by Mr. Spooklie. Also any environmental damage to the river he should have to pay for. The housing project he has planned is not going to happen anytime soon, in this economy; or lack there of.
I bet the people complaining about this gravel pit are the same ones who moved to a rural or semi-rural area of Montana; then complained about dust after buying/building a home on a gravel road. Why do people living on gravel roads in the Flathead think they are so special? That the county or state has to pave their road because they don’t like the dust. It doesn’t take a MIT graduate to know that gravel roads produce dust.
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By unionmade on 04-01-09
the day the business man pays for his full share is the day I support him….
Quit asking me to subsidize his “opportunity”
IF you believe so much in the viability in the venture you’d put up a bond in the amount needed for the reclamation of the property as proscribed by law—
ARE you willing to do that MR SPOKLIE?
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By Debbie on 04-02-09
First I have to say that a lot of people are talking about something they have not researched. I live next to a gravel pit and yes there is dust but the owners are very good about keeping the road watered to alleviate this. Next there is the issue of jobs in our community. Most of us depend on service type jobs and this contributes to money in our valley. I also remember something about Spoklie having to improve the portion of Belton Stage Road to the highway…I think he had to pave it. So he has put up money. As for the park…well, I don’t think it will affect the animals. Like I said I live near a gravel pit and we have bears, moose, elk and deer around all the time. I think we should all check the facts before we start condeming someone for trying to make a living for himself and his family and paying people a living wage here in the valley.
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By littlehawk12 on 04-02-09
Fine homes have already been built on former gravel pitts in Glacier.Those homes do not seem to be hurting anything.Whats the big deal?
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By Cowgirl up on 04-02-09
littlehawk…youtube.com/watch-If I Die Before You Wake-a tribute to the American Soldier-pretty awesome.
See ya at the Tea Party!
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By funguymon on 04-03-09
I don’t know if any other gravel pit is close by, but if GNP wants to build or upgrade anything, having a gravel pit that close will save them serious money. You need gravel for anything and everything, so it is very valuable property.
This is a tough call and I don’t know where I stand on this issue. I think it would really depend on the residents around that area ultimately because from what I understand the gravel pit was abandoned.
I couldn’t vote yes or no especially since I am an outsider looking in.
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By no more elk on 04-11-09
22 trucks per day is based on 800K cubic yards, but the actual request is for 1800K cubic yards. Funny how someone made a slight excusable boo-boo when do the calculations. The the total amount to be excavated (24 acres 70 feet deep) is about 2800K cubic yards. Just another slight error?
Indeed, Mr. Spoklie has the right to the enjoyment of his property, but so do his neighbors. Running diesel powered rock crushers from 7:00 am until 7:00 pm, and consuming thousands of gallons of water per day may be infringing on their rights to the enjoyment of their property.
Mine operators have to file with the state every year claimuing the amount of gravel taken. Corkie Evans, the previous owner, filed in several years that the mine (gravel pit) was not in operation. Funny how a year of so after Spoklie bought the pit Corkie filed amendments claiming that, oh, wait a sec, the pit actually was in operation those years. And Spoklie was able to claim grandfather status.
The pit had been up dor sale for awhile before Spoklie bought it. It didn’t sell because it was a gravel oit and everybody knew that after a year of non-operation it couldn’t be put back in operation. It took somebody with the lawyers and money to find and pull the right levers.
Elk used to cross through through there, especially through the old dump and across Evans’ (now Spoklie’s) land. Not anymore.
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Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Leg. Watcher on 03-30-09
So when will the Beacon do a story on Ryan Zinke and his family’s business in the gravel trade? He’s openly admitted to such in committee hearings, yet no one has touched this issue?
Isn’t there something ethically wrong with voting and advocating on the gravel issues and DEQ permitting when your family’s money is tied up in the issue? I guess that’s why he ran for office in the first place though…
Just wondering.
By Dave Skinner on 03-30-09
Leg, why is it wrong to advocate for your own advancement, yet completely cool to advocate to prevent others from their own advancement?
By mitch on 03-30-09
It is wrong when the one doing the advancing has no concern of the damage he is causing (or has already caused) to his neighbors and their well being, worth of their property, etc. It’s all about greed.
By PGirl on 03-30-09
My thoughts: Is the Zinke family business bordering a National Park? I wonder about 22 gravel trucks a day up and down Belton Stage? The highway through that area is horrible anyway, but to add that much more traffic? Also, what is the noise level with a gravel pit? I have heard comments for years on the noise pollution caused by a helicopter flying over once in awhile. And my thoughts are with the neighbors, if this business was closed down in the 90’s, they assumed it was not a working gravel pit any longer. Maybe Mr. Spoklie should have to buy them out, fair market value….before you factor in the loss of having a gravel pit for a neighbor. Then they could buy property on the hillside in Martin City.
By Dave Skinner on 03-30-09
No, Mitch,
You’re saying it’s right when it’s the foundation and roadways to YOUR house. How valuable would your property be if you were stuck with laying down corduroy for your drive, and using a foundation of old railroad ties?
I’m stunned, again, by the unilateralist attitude people have towards “rights.“ Mine always, yours never? What a shame.
By mitch on 03-30-09
What?? I have no idea what you just said there? The neighbors bought their properties, built their homes and established their lives next to an “abandoned” gravel pit. Then someone sees an opportunity to make some bucks to fill his own pockets and to heck with the mess he is causing for everyone else. He’ll take what he can, and be out of there, leaving the mess for someone else to deal with. If we all led our lives looking for what we could do with our “rights” instead of a little common sense and love for their fellow man, what a sad pathetic life we would lead.
By golden rule on 03-30-09
it’s simply a case of the American Golden Rule - those w/ the gold make the rules and the rest of us who try to play by the rules are shown for the fools I suppose we are…
The pit was closed down. It was 2 acres.
And if anyone has driven on Belton Stage road then you’d know that is an accident waiting to happen. AND of course when it does it won’t be the gravel truck that pays the price -
So trash the road, affect tourism, degrade the water quality, create a mess you won’t clean up, degrade the neighborhood, all for a short term buck at the PUBLICS expense. ALL because of WHO YOU KNOW ONLY!
Go ahead and do it but don’t tell us it was all above board and done fair and square. YOU jobbed the system!
By PGirl on 03-30-09
Just heard a “rumor” that GNP is getting the gravel for the road construction from THAT source? Wow! Talk about pooping in your own back yard? And I also heard that 22 trucks a day is a “small” estimate. Anyone know the truth?
By Fair Row on 03-31-09
It will be quite interesting to see what position GNP takes on the gravel pit. Many of the questions posed in the above comments might be answered as well as raising new questions.
By Question? on 03-31-09
Is Dave Skinner the guy that used to try to sell advertising for John Stokes down at the Wedge-600?
By Tox on 03-31-09
This gravel pit is exemplary in small of what is ruining and trashing local communities all over our country: Corporations and/or “developers” with deep $ pockets moving in to extract wealth at the cost of and against the will of the existing local community….All should kowtow to the pipe dream of unrestricted property rights and the fullfulment individuals’ greed, and while we’re at it let’s go ahead and trash the environment too, since environmental regulations are bad for business.
—
Here we have a “developer” come in to run and expand a small closed down gravel pit in a beautiful, quiet residential area right next to GNP and a Wild & Scenic River corridor, where local regulations have been set up to prevent precisely this kind of operation.
—
But hey, Spoklie’s rights were “grandfathered” because the original permit was issued in March 1991, just one before the regulations took effect, exempting his gravel mine from local zoning. And now he wants to expand it from 2 to 24 acres….Never mind that the gravel pit had not been operational for more than a decade. Never mind all terrible noise generated in the area. Never mind all the dust created and spread in the vicinity. Never mind using 10’000s gallons of water daily for washing. Never mind all the added big truck traffic on a small residential country road. Never mind that this area is a frequented and appreciated wildlife corridor. Never mind that it is completely against the will of the local community.
To hell with the locals and the peaceful community!
Greed and property rights trumps all that.
God bless America!
By Tox on 03-31-09
That should read:
“...the original permit was issued in March 1991, just one MONTH before the regulations took effect…“
in the above post.
By Fair Row on 03-31-09
Doesn’t Dusty Dupont live in the residential area affected by this gravel pit ?
By Dave Skinner on 04-01-09
Question?
No.
By freeMONTANA on 04-01-09
It’s his land and he has the right to use it. But the cost to improve Belton Stage to facilitate gravel trucks should be paid by Mr. Spooklie. Also any environmental damage to the river he should have to pay for. The housing project he has planned is not going to happen anytime soon, in this economy; or lack there of.
I bet the people complaining about this gravel pit are the same ones who moved to a rural or semi-rural area of Montana; then complained about dust after buying/building a home on a gravel road. Why do people living on gravel roads in the Flathead think they are so special? That the county or state has to pave their road because they don’t like the dust. It doesn’t take a MIT graduate to know that gravel roads produce dust.
By unionmade on 04-01-09
the day the business man pays for his full share is the day I support him….
Quit asking me to subsidize his “opportunity”
IF you believe so much in the viability in the venture you’d put up a bond in the amount needed for the reclamation of the property as proscribed by law—
ARE you willing to do that MR SPOKLIE?
By Debbie on 04-02-09
First I have to say that a lot of people are talking about something they have not researched. I live next to a gravel pit and yes there is dust but the owners are very good about keeping the road watered to alleviate this. Next there is the issue of jobs in our community. Most of us depend on service type jobs and this contributes to money in our valley. I also remember something about Spoklie having to improve the portion of Belton Stage Road to the highway…I think he had to pave it. So he has put up money. As for the park…well, I don’t think it will affect the animals. Like I said I live near a gravel pit and we have bears, moose, elk and deer around all the time. I think we should all check the facts before we start condeming someone for trying to make a living for himself and his family and paying people a living wage here in the valley.
By littlehawk12 on 04-02-09
Fine homes have already been built on former gravel pitts in Glacier.Those homes do not seem to be hurting anything.Whats the big deal?
By Cowgirl up on 04-02-09
littlehawk…youtube.com/watch-If I Die Before You Wake-a tribute to the American Soldier-pretty awesome.
See ya at the Tea Party!
By funguymon on 04-03-09
I don’t know if any other gravel pit is close by, but if GNP wants to build or upgrade anything, having a gravel pit that close will save them serious money. You need gravel for anything and everything, so it is very valuable property.
This is a tough call and I don’t know where I stand on this issue. I think it would really depend on the residents around that area ultimately because from what I understand the gravel pit was abandoned.
I couldn’t vote yes or no especially since I am an outsider looking in.
By no more elk on 04-11-09
22 trucks per day is based on 800K cubic yards, but the actual request is for 1800K cubic yards. Funny how someone made a slight excusable boo-boo when do the calculations. The the total amount to be excavated (24 acres 70 feet deep) is about 2800K cubic yards. Just another slight error?
Indeed, Mr. Spoklie has the right to the enjoyment of his property, but so do his neighbors. Running diesel powered rock crushers from 7:00 am until 7:00 pm, and consuming thousands of gallons of water per day may be infringing on their rights to the enjoyment of their property.
Mine operators have to file with the state every year claimuing the amount of gravel taken. Corkie Evans, the previous owner, filed in several years that the mine (gravel pit) was not in operation. Funny how a year of so after Spoklie bought the pit Corkie filed amendments claiming that, oh, wait a sec, the pit actually was in operation those years. And Spoklie was able to claim grandfather status.
The pit had been up dor sale for awhile before Spoklie bought it. It didn’t sell because it was a gravel oit and everybody knew that after a year of non-operation it couldn’t be put back in operation. It took somebody with the lawyers and money to find and pull the right levers.
Elk used to cross through through there, especially through the old dump and across Evans’ (now Spoklie’s) land. Not anymore.