By Billy on 12-09-09
I do not trust the lawyers in ours or any state. They are a group unto themselves and that include judges. (My opinion)The Executive is supposed to be one of the seperate branches but they are all working together to create the rules and regulations. (My opinion) I just do not trust them and would welcome more review.
By Billy on 12-09-09
Why are the County Attorneys mum?The Constitution belongs to the People and they use it to hold the government within it’s bounds. Lets get the truth out about what our rights are.
By Billy on 12-09-09
This particular segment covers? A REAL Check on the 3 Branches: Grand Jury
? Grand Jury & Trial Jury are ABOVE
the Constitution and government
? NO Branch of government has the power to
indict someone (Grand Jury must consent)
? The disadvantage of productive members of society
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkfCFSUGT_g&feature=related
By dsrobins on 12-09-09
Citizens’ Grand Juries might sound like a good idea to those ignorant of the law or intent upon violating it, but it’s actually a very old idea that has been done before with disastrous results.In America, particularly in the west, it was called vigilante justice. The “jury” arrived usually well primed with liquor, armed with a few guns and knives and a ready length of rope. The idea particularly caught on in the South as Reconstruction programs were dismantled in the late 19th century to be replaced with what came to be known as “Jim Crow” laws. The scenario was the same, liquor, guns, knives and ropes. Just the victims were different, being virtually all African Americans rather than whites. A variant showed up in various countries in the aftermath of WWI with so-called “kangaroo” courts staffed by the same sorts as the others, but they actually held brief “trials” following which the accused, obviously now convicted, were promptly strung up or shot. The most recent and widespread practices of the same sort probably appeared in Nazi Germany. First the brownshirts and then the SS gleefully rousted utterly innocent people out of their beds and homes, drove them into the streets, beat and often killed them all in the name of racial purity as embodied in the Nuremburg laws.
We should very much beware of any and all groups and individuals who want to reinstitute such civil savagery here in America under the guise of “citizens’ grand juries.” Their real go is to strike down all the protections that we enjoy under our Constitution.
By Billy on 12-10-09
dsrobbins you are full of it. What do yo you really know about the function of the Jury. You and your ignorant kind are full of wild accusations and stupid comparisons.
By Billy on 12-10-09
The jury is our last defence against a government out of control.A grand jury decides if there is a probable cause to indict (accuse) individuals or corporations on criminal charges based upon the evidence presented.
By Billy on 12-10-09
Does the idiot dsrobbins want to eliminate the jury trial.In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
By Billy on 12-10-09
dsrobbins = Anti-American. They like to accuse the patriots of racism, anti-semitism and religious extremism and do not focus on the threat. dsrobbins is working for the Bolsheviks and their determination to kill off the independent Christians like they did in the 1930’s Ukraine Holodomar.
By Billy on 12-10-09
“It was a state-organized program of mass starvation against the nation of Ukraine as a whole and the revived Ukrainian nationalism.”
So said U.S. Sen. George Voinovich of Ohio, according to the Congressional Record of 2008, in a statement recognizing the 75th anniversary of the Holodomar. The word means “extermination by famine” and refers to the 6 million to 10 million deaths that occurred in Ukraine as a result of the enforcement of grain collectivization resolutions issued between 1932-1933 by Joseph Stalin and his apparatchiks.
By Billy on 12-10-09
BeaconHeads; Get your insults ready because you can’t understand the truth.Some of you may have voted for Martin Beckman in the 1988 Montana Governors election. Have you heard him speak on the Constitution. Maybe you should, before you start believing the anti-American bovine excrement dsrobbins and his followers use to color your thinking.
Go to Youtube and type in Red Beckman and get it straight.
By Yosemite1967 on 12-10-09
With how agenda-driven the actions of political officials usually are these days, the following quote from the article is laughable:
“‘To my mind, that is one of the big problems; the criminal process starts to be used to further a political agenda,’ Griffing (the ACLU lawyer) said.”
Who puts credence in the ACLU (American Communist Lawyers Union)?
“Some times, it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels, in the forms of kings, to govern him? Let history answer this question.” —Thomas Jefferson
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” —Lord Acton (And hence, government officials are typically more corrupt than citizens.)
By Firebeam on 12-10-09
Well dsrobbins, I can’t add much more to the whipping you’ve already received here. Your “wild west” story seems completely out of date for the current situation.
The citizen jury is the best idea I’ve seen yet to take back our out-of-control government. We need to get them to listen and so far nothing has worked. This might.
Complacency seems to be the root of our spend-spend-spend government. The elected officials seem to think they are insulated from the public’s opinion. The money well is dry, and yet these senators and congressmen and president just bark orders to drill the well deeper. The holier-than-thou attitude of elected individuals, like that of our illustrious Mr. Barkus can’t be allowed to continue. These people are NOT entitled to get out of jail free cards by virtue of their position or association with others in high position. Such attitudes destroy the credibility of our government.
The public needs a pinnicle action, like this citizen jury, to get the attention of the government; to rattle their cage enough so that they remember we have a voice that shall not be ignored. To shake some sense into them and put square in their faces the accountability we expect.
Not that the citizen jury idea doesn’t concern me. It has the potential to run amuk and without careful design, could be a worse problem itself than the problem we aim to fix with it. But as a concept, I support it so far. Fixing our government won’t be quick or easy, but the citizen jury seems an appropriate step toward that fix.
By Vud on 12-10-09
Interesting clip Billy.
However, there is a question I have:
I see the speaker advocates for the “Grand Jury” to be set ABOVE the protections of the Constitution. (‘Because people wrote the Constitution.’) Sooo…
What happens to unalienable or God-given rights in this case?
What guide lines WILL they follow? Their conscience?
I also see he states that (in a larger sense) people must know their rights as given by the Constitution, or the Grand Jury concept is “on the floor.”
Is it your experience that more than a very few know these things? That’s not my experience.
My experience tells me most Americans DON’T vote and abhor even being ASKED to serve as jurors.
By Billy on 12-10-09
I agree Vud; people don’t know, don’t vote, and most don’t have a clue. The jury of 12 is a valid decision making team of our peers. The constution is for our protection from the ones that only say they are the good guys. Gotta go. Ps. You can still be on the jury even if you don’t vote I think. Beckman had an audience in Montana in the late 80’s.
By Vud on 12-10-09
I believe the grand jurys are seperate from the trial jurys…iethe grand jury would OK a decision by the judicial branch it would then go to a trial jury for resolution.
The catch being that the G.J., which would be above the constitution, could be subject to the vagaries of public
opinion of the moment.
Some states take potential jurors from voter rolls others from DMV probably other variations as well.
Have a good one.
By cody23 on 12-10-09
Many of the extreme comments posted on both sides of this debate illustrate exactly why I would oppose this kind of a change in the legal system. Why would I choose to replace one allegedly corrupt official with 12. I’ve been to many jury trials (not many grand jury) and the simple fact is that average citizens often have a difficult time understanding criminal and constitutional matters of law. I would bet your next paycheck that some of the wingnuts spouting off here don’t fully or completely understand the constitutional law they so frequently refer to. My opinion of the current system is that it is neither as effective as it’s supporters claim nor as corrupt as it’s critics claim. The silver lining is that it’s still far better than what you’ll get in Guadalajara.
By emerson on 12-10-09
It seems that proposals such as these don’t come from people who want to keep power in check as much as people who want power to override the directions of a democratic society.
The reality is that there are a lot of checks within a democratic society. There are elections, there are legal rights afforded to individuals despite the momentary opinions of the mob. There are the nuances of legal precedence.
Many of these checks against power are the very reasons why people with more extreme and out-of-mainstream views feel like society is always going in a different direction than they think it should. They always want dramatic and massive change towards their extreme views and they want it now.
The brakes against extremism and momentary mob ambition are good for the sustainability of a society and the rights of individuals.
History has shown that when these brakes are removed, it usually ends in disaster.
By Billy on 12-10-09
Isn’t that the problem Cody. The lawyers have placed the law out of our reach. We just want to get a grip on it before they take it all. Any person the Grand Jury indicts still has the jury trial and every one makes their case there. Lets not leave it up to just the DA and a rubber stamp for a Grand Jury. Red Beckman has spent over thirty years explaining it far better than I could. Just Youtube him. Make up your own mind.
By Billy on 12-10-09
And emerson, change it we will.
By Billy on 12-10-09
emerson quit giving us your lawyer mouthed babble.What make you you think we want to sustain your pervrted version of a society?
What history lesson are you talking about?
Maybe some people think your Democratic direction is headed the wrong way.
The jury is the final check against bad law.
Thats what the founders did. Made a system that wasn’t mainstream. We need to keep it from slipping back into what it was, Serfdom.
By Billy on 12-11-09
Cody, I can’t answer your question.“Why would I choose to replace one allegedly corrupt official with 12.”:
Big Brother has already got to you.
I’m sorry Winston. Its hard to break away from the herd.
By Native on 12-11-09
Well put emerson.
I don’t think dsrobins historical references are irrelevant just because those things happened a long time ago and sound barbaric. Those things were made possible by peoples extreme paranoia and anger and those two things are obviously on the rise even on these boards. I mean seriously Billy, you and so many others sound like anger and paranoia have actually caused you to abandon reason and realism.
By Billy on 12-11-09
Actually it’s very calm and peaceful where I’m at KN. I just don’t want you and the rest to lose what I call freedom to chose. The communalism movement wants to remove any doubt that the State is God. We the People are superior to the state and it is our will the state will bend to.
By Billy on 12-11-09
Make that freedom to choose KN. It’s our choice. It is We that matter.
By emerson on 12-11-09
“We” is good.
But what happens if everyone who is a part of “we” doesn’t have the exact some opinions and ideas as you Billy?
Are you in favor of “We” in reality, or just “We” as long as everyone believes exactly as you do?
By Billy on 12-11-09
Emerson;Thats where the twelve work it out. The supreme soveriegn council.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b01yk3t6Rw8&feature=related
By Billy on 12-11-09
If you don’t like what the twelve decide then you would have to resort to violence. That’s what the Bolcheviks do. If they can’t dupe the people into accepting their GodState they will resort to elimination of the opposition.
By Vud on 12-11-09
Watched this last night. Copied here for entertainment value only…The Obsolete Man…
http://www.cbs.com/classics/the_twilight_zone/video/video.php?cid=649555532&pid=cECrkUfCpb3irhnV_KadYQA_dXB6IIKo
By Billy on 12-11-09
With 50% of the paycheck coming from the Occupational Governing Forces there is a good chance opposition removal should be pretty easy since they have an entire class A, Armed Force at their disposal. But I was reading an interpetation of Eziekel that indicated the Forces would turn on their host and destroy it.If the government would be content to live within the confines of the Constitution there wouldn’t be any problem. But the evil war machine lobbyists have hooked the congressmen by the nose.
By Kalispell Native on 12-11-09
Pay attention to who you are responding to Billy. I am not the poster known as “Native”.
By Billy on 12-11-09
Thanks for the CBS link Vud. I’ll go quietly now.KN, my apologies. Could you call me grasshopper?
By Native on 12-11-09
I agree with the freedom to choose & civil liberties thing, I think everyone does. Again, its the paranoia that divides a lot of us. You want this jury thing because you obviously don’t trust our officials and thats fine but its the level of mistrust that is unsettling. Not everyone fears that our Gov has a secret evil plan to wreck our nation and take away our rights. That doesn’t sound like a very popular campaign platform.
By Native on 12-11-09
I guess it makes perfect sense that everyone with a conspiricy theory thinks everyone else is naive. Its pretty presumptious to think that if someone doesn’t buy in to your beliefs they must be uninformed. Preaching to everyone that the sky is falling doesn’t necesarily mean that you are enlightened. I wouldn’t suggest that you have the blinders over your eyes but I would bet you are wearing them off to the sides so you can only see one direction.
By Billy on 12-11-09
The government doesn’t have any plans it is only a pattern defined by the Constitution. It’s when the government gets stuffed with socialists or communists or mind controlled automatons, doesn’t make any difference, as long as we have a jury to stop any harmful intrusions into our state of freedom.
By Vud on 12-11-09
Calm down.
You’re not TRYING to share your ‘info’ on Global Government…you ARE. ‘We’ just don’t happen to agree with everything you believe.
BTW ‘John’ told me Alex is wrong.
Also please try to consolidate your posts. Please?
By Native on 12-11-09
Wow. Not really the subject here. No idea how you segwayed to that wonderful rant but I did google NWO since I thought it was just a professional wrestling team. The term “Conspiricy Theory” only comes up in every definition of it. I bet you were one of those people that thought the Blair Witch Project was real. Thats adorable.
By Native on 12-11-09
In retrospect that was pretty condecending. I apologize.
By Billy on 12-11-09
The elitists have been throwing the NWO in our faces for over twenty years and it’s news to you Mr Native? I’m a little suprised but would you believe that before the robbers hit the bank they have a plan. They must conspire if they are to have victory.
By dsrobins on 12-11-09
It’s good that some folks claim not to believe in conspiracies, especially when they can’t even spell the word correctly.
By Native on 12-11-09
Grammer slam!!! In my face!
By Billy on 12-11-09
If you focus on the little nit picking details you will miss the larger message. That would be too bad dsrobbinette. You should come on over to the fresh air side where you can clearly see how we have been suckered out of a good life for our grandchildren because we were too stupid to see.
By Native on 12-11-09
Oh, I guess we both spelled conspiracy wrong. Double grammer slam!
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