Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By mooseberryinn on 11-18-09
When/If the Great Destructor obamapelosireid’s health “care”(?) “Reform (?) bill smacks the small businesses, we will see another “uptick” or giant dungball increase in unemployment. Common sense - if a business must pay more for employing someone, they will employ less people.
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By JB on 11-18-09
In a word…NO.
The figures listed in recovery.gov are not even close to accurate:
And yet, it’s being funded with an $18 million grant.
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By dsrobins on 11-18-09
The dummies posting here again demonstrate their utter ignorance of American history. The so-called Great Depression officially began on Black Friday in October 1929, but it actually had begun back in the 1920s when agricultural prices plummeted due to the spreading drought in the West and Middle West. The Republicans then in charge, let by Herbert Hoover did nothing but sit on their hands until Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in November 1932 and took office in 1933 Roosevelt immediately moved to restore economic confidence, closing all the banks and initiating a wide range of economic stimulation and job creation programs. It took several years before the worst of the suffering began to diminish and some programs were outright failures. Roosevelt was also hampered by an extreme right wing Supreme Court that declared several of his programs unconstitutional. Nevertheless, among the programs that worked were the Works Progress Administration, the great road and dam building programs, Social Security, agricultural reform programs, and the Civilian Conservation Corps that did small, simple, but useful projects all across America. Employment did not fully recover until the start of WWII, by which time Roosevelt had two million fine, fit and trained young men in the CCC, most of whom immediately volunteered to join the armed forces after Pearl Harbor. President Obama faces a similar situation, albeit not as grave as FDR did. He moved far faster to stabilize the financial system, something the Republicans utterly ignored until the last moment and then screwed up. It may take years to regain full employment, but the Obama administration is bringing forth new proposals for further reform every few weeks. Only the hopelessly ignorant or the hopelessly ill informed seem unable to grasp these simple facts.
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By Billy on 11-19-09
Communism will ultimately triumph, for, they maintain the present period in world history is that of the disorganisation of capitalism.
Gareth Jones 1905-1935 http://www.garethjones.org/
__________________________
Do we want a collective? I guess since we’re are all on the dole anyway it isn’t such a big step.
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By Mark Riffey on 11-19-09
Molly, here’s a map that might prove interesting on this subject. It references news stories about stimulus job reporting and in some cases, ties back to the recovery.gov job claim.
I never get into political discussions simply because they overwhelm and exasperate me with all the lying and backstabbing that goes on from both sides. I know D@#& well that both parties are to blame for this latest trough feeding you can point fingers all day but both parties profited from their personal portfolios. The difference D.H robbins is roosevelt gave the people jobs, did you hear that are you smelling what I am smoking I said JOBS. This whole thing about this giving the states money is that they mismanage it anyway personal pet projects blah blah blah. More money is allocated in the Bozeman area than the rest of the state combined. It is another sham to appease the voters if you want to put people to work HIRE every unemployed person to clean up the state lands that been neglected for years. When they hire for this hwy.93 project some will benefit but most will be brought in from out of the area bet coffee on that. Anger never makes a good point so I will stop but, this an American citizens problem so hire citizens.
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By Kokanee on 11-19-09
You know what who ever gave me a thumbs down is just like the rest of the politicians who have their head in the sand. You fail to see we are jeopardy. Was it not you that hated trickle down economics well this is the same thing except it filters through the sieve of govt. god knows how effective the govt. is.
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By Billy on 11-19-09
I think we need to focus on our own strengths. We are not going to make it as a group if we wait for the trickle down.
Shouldn’t we be coming up with solutions on a individual and community level.
We’ve been preparing for calamity for a couple years now. Have you?
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By JoeinMontana on 11-20-09
The “stickittous"money has only done two things..increase the size of goverment and their employees and take us deeper in the hole…..
DSrobins tell us the “rest of the story” WW2 is what got us out of the drepression…bar none!
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By JB on 11-23-09
Funny how dsrobins seems to omit important facts about the Great Depression - the most important fact being that most people did not borrow to buy their homes.
He also seems to ignore the fact that the DOL U6 unemployment rate last month hit 17.5 percent - or nearly 1 in 5 American workers being unemployed or underemployed. Obama likes to think he is acting just as FDR would - but Obama is absolutely no FDR. All he has done is spend more money than any one man in the history of the planet - and has absolutely nothing to show for it. He will go down in history as the man who caused the collapse of the US economy.
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By Kalispell Native on 11-24-09
And what you conveniently leave out JB, is that Obama is trying to clean up a mess created by 8 years (or more) of G No P/bush deregulation of Big Business. Remember, the Bank Bailout has shrubya’s signature on it. Tell me again about the way the shrub/dick cabal proclaimed that an illegal war on Iraq would pay for itself in oil revenues, conveniently embezzled thru dick’s former company Halliburton on a no-bid contract basis.
You’re a Corporatist pimp.
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By JB on 11-24-09
Yeah, the Bush/Cheney crew started it - and Obama/“Caboose Boy” Biden are gonna finish it. Tell me again about how Obama is in bed with GE/MSNBC and the “climate change” cabal, kowtowing to the rest of the world about how we screwed up the planet by polluting it beyond redemption - and how we are giving taxpayer dollars to countries who do a much better job of polluting their own countries than we do, because we so need to redeem ourselves for polluting the planet before they got a chance to.
And you are a leftist media whore.
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By JB on 11-24-09
Oh, and KN - you’re absolutely right.
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By the way on 11-24-09
Too bad the article didn’t mention a little something the Obama administration has done and is still doing to help small business. I know firsthand for a fact it is helping keep families alive. Remember Barrack promising us he’d write a whole bunch more SBA loans than usual? He did it. And when the recession didn’t lift soon enough for recipients to make the payments he created another loan to do that, this one being interest-free. If nothing else it keeps some people in business long enough to write a few more paychecks to employees who would otherwise be history. I have heard that some local businesses found out about all this too late and have failed. Others such as myself have awesome bankers who are on top of the situation and take really good care of their customers! Thank you, Flathead Bank. Awesome.
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By Kokanee on 11-24-09
Hard to keep businesses afloat if people do not have money to spend !!!!
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By the way on 11-24-09
Exactly, Koke! We CAN’T stay afloat but the gov’t does not want us to die so they are helping. Sooner or later things will get better, (right?) and people will have money to spend and we can pay back the loan. Or not, but at least our bankruptcy and death has been delayed. We tried.
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By mooseberryinn on 11-25-09
Remember - for every one of the billions of dollars the regime prints, the overall value of same decreases. That’s called inflation. Massive and very costly inflation should be arriving by the end of next year, if not sooner. thank you very much o-bummer.
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By woody on 11-25-09
mooseberry just informed us of his utter lack of economic understanding…...
1. the bailout monies printed by the fed - now up to 20+ trillion are not being loaned out -
and if the money doesn’t hit the general market for dollars then inflation won’t happen…...
2.and many dollars - a majority actually - leave the USA and NEVER return - they are used as a “global currency” - also won’t cause an increase in inflation….
3. most of the money is a figment of the bankers imagination - currently there is a Fed program - (that they tell us is to increase Banks deposit requirements) where the banks can borrow money for free from the Federal Reserve(zero interest) and then can re-deposit it back in the Fed and they get paid a 5% return. THAT is the real money they then siphon into their Swiss Bank accounts.
And the real danger is the Federal Debt - it now runs over 350 Billion a year on Interest alone!
If countries think we’re going to bankrupt ourselves then they will quit using the Dollar as the global currency and THAT WILL lead to massive inflation.
And we all remember our history lessons right?
the REPUBLICANS have caused around 90% of the ENTIRE federal debt.
1. Reagan took a debt of less than a trillion and ran it up to 3 trillion in 8 years. (AND spent all the Social Security money that would ahve ore than paid for SS for the next 100 years.)
result - 3 trillion in debt added to the gov.
2. bush senior - the debt went from 3 to 5 trillion.
3. clinton debt went from 5 -to 6 trillon in 8 years- an increase of 1 trillion ( not bad - he even balanced a budget! something the RETHUGS have NEVER DONE!
4. shrub bush - debt went from 6 trillon to 12 trillon - increase of 6 trillion
so of the 12 trillion in federal debt less than 1 trillion by the presidents from washington to carter…
reagan +2.3 trillion
bush Senior - +2
bush the shrub +6
so 10 out of the 12 trillion in federal debt was caused by the rightwingnuts that have ruined the country -
and that money was funneled straight to the corporate thieves running(ruining) the country….
so Mooseberry must also hate the republicans if he wasnt’ a hypocritical self-proclaimed corporate hack like JB -
their rightwing bigoted minds can’t handle the truth!
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By Kokanee on 11-25-09
And the whole time this was going on Democrats sat idly by with their head bent low going woe is us we cannot do anything we do not have a ball to play with. I maybe wrong but Clinton inherited a legacy of improving economy from whom Woody. Do you honestly believe that it is all one parties fault, they did this and they did that. Come on it is this one sided B.S. that got us here united we stand divided we fall ever heard of this concept.
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By woody on 11-25-09
democrats are by and large either sell-outs to the corporations and big money - ie a republican in sheeps clothing….. or cowards…..
and if Bush sr had had such a great economy going he would have been RE-ELECTED.
Arguing that Bush senior led to the clinton growth years is called revisionist history….
and believed by those that lack a decent education…... which is why the republicans want to destroy the education system - and have succeded in large part…..
and I’m with you on the 2 party duopoly - but thinking that deregulating big business is the answer is like saying you can get in shape thru the 16 oz arm curl ...
which is why I suggest people look into the Green party as an answer to the non-sustainable lifestyle that corporate america has forced down our throats…...
and all for the short term buck…...
which is why the game Monopoly was created during the great depression - it was an educational tool to show how big business is like a cancer just waiting to take over every space on the board and double or triple the rent - and the game shows how the end product of unbridled capitalism leads to one entity owning the entire board and then as they say - “game over”
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By woody on 11-25-09
and the doubling and tripling of rent is realized thru bubbles and busts and the creation of debt…............
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Comments on: Is the Stimulus Helping Flathead Unemployment?
Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By mooseberryinn on 11-18-09
When/If the Great Destructor obamapelosireid’s health “care”(?) “Reform (?) bill smacks the small businesses, we will see another “uptick” or giant dungball increase in unemployment. Common sense - if a business must pay more for employing someone, they will employ less people.
By JB on 11-18-09
In a word…NO.
The figures listed in recovery.gov are not even close to accurate:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jobs-saved-created-congressional-districts-exist/story?id=9097853
And yet, it’s being funded with an $18 million grant.
By dsrobins on 11-18-09
The dummies posting here again demonstrate their utter ignorance of American history. The so-called Great Depression officially began on Black Friday in October 1929, but it actually had begun back in the 1920s when agricultural prices plummeted due to the spreading drought in the West and Middle West. The Republicans then in charge, let by Herbert Hoover did nothing but sit on their hands until Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in November 1932 and took office in 1933 Roosevelt immediately moved to restore economic confidence, closing all the banks and initiating a wide range of economic stimulation and job creation programs. It took several years before the worst of the suffering began to diminish and some programs were outright failures. Roosevelt was also hampered by an extreme right wing Supreme Court that declared several of his programs unconstitutional. Nevertheless, among the programs that worked were the Works Progress Administration, the great road and dam building programs, Social Security, agricultural reform programs, and the Civilian Conservation Corps that did small, simple, but useful projects all across America. Employment did not fully recover until the start of WWII, by which time Roosevelt had two million fine, fit and trained young men in the CCC, most of whom immediately volunteered to join the armed forces after Pearl Harbor. President Obama faces a similar situation, albeit not as grave as FDR did. He moved far faster to stabilize the financial system, something the Republicans utterly ignored until the last moment and then screwed up. It may take years to regain full employment, but the Obama administration is bringing forth new proposals for further reform every few weeks. Only the hopelessly ignorant or the hopelessly ill informed seem unable to grasp these simple facts.
By Billy on 11-19-09
Communism will ultimately triumph, for, they maintain the present period in world history is that of the disorganisation of capitalism.
Gareth Jones 1905-1935
http://www.garethjones.org/
__________________________
Do we want a collective? I guess since we’re are all on the dole anyway it isn’t such a big step.
By Mark Riffey on 11-19-09
Molly, here’s a map that might prove interesting on this subject. It references news stories about stimulus job reporting and in some cases, ties back to the recovery.gov job claim.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=107704220287495603222.0004782e6659ad532d4ee&ll=39.639538,-97.119141&spn=23.633433,57.128906&t=p&z=4&source=embed
By Kokanee on 11-19-09
I never get into political discussions simply because they overwhelm and exasperate me with all the lying and backstabbing that goes on from both sides. I know D@#& well that both parties are to blame for this latest trough feeding you can point fingers all day but both parties profited from their personal portfolios. The difference D.H robbins is roosevelt gave the people jobs, did you hear that are you smelling what I am smoking I said JOBS. This whole thing about this giving the states money is that they mismanage it anyway personal pet projects blah blah blah. More money is allocated in the Bozeman area than the rest of the state combined. It is another sham to appease the voters if you want to put people to work HIRE every unemployed person to clean up the state lands that been neglected for years. When they hire for this hwy.93 project some will benefit but most will be brought in from out of the area bet coffee on that. Anger never makes a good point so I will stop but, this an American citizens problem so hire citizens.
By Kokanee on 11-19-09
You know what who ever gave me a thumbs down is just like the rest of the politicians who have their head in the sand. You fail to see we are jeopardy. Was it not you that hated trickle down economics well this is the same thing except it filters through the sieve of govt. god knows how effective the govt. is.
By Billy on 11-19-09
I think we need to focus on our own strengths. We are not going to make it as a group if we wait for the trickle down.
Shouldn’t we be coming up with solutions on a individual and community level.
We’ve been preparing for calamity for a couple years now. Have you?
By JoeinMontana on 11-20-09
The “stickittous"money has only done two things..increase the size of goverment and their employees and take us deeper in the hole…..
DSrobins tell us the “rest of the story” WW2 is what got us out of the drepression…bar none!
By JB on 11-23-09
Funny how dsrobins seems to omit important facts about the Great Depression - the most important fact being that most people did not borrow to buy their homes.
He also seems to ignore the fact that the DOL U6 unemployment rate last month hit 17.5 percent - or nearly 1 in 5 American workers being unemployed or underemployed. Obama likes to think he is acting just as FDR would - but Obama is absolutely no FDR. All he has done is spend more money than any one man in the history of the planet - and has absolutely nothing to show for it. He will go down in history as the man who caused the collapse of the US economy.
By Kalispell Native on 11-24-09
And what you conveniently leave out JB, is that Obama is trying to clean up a mess created by 8 years (or more) of G No P/bush deregulation of Big Business. Remember, the Bank Bailout has shrubya’s signature on it. Tell me again about the way the shrub/dick cabal proclaimed that an illegal war on Iraq would pay for itself in oil revenues, conveniently embezzled thru dick’s former company Halliburton on a no-bid contract basis.
You’re a Corporatist pimp.
By JB on 11-24-09
Yeah, the Bush/Cheney crew started it - and Obama/“Caboose Boy” Biden are gonna finish it. Tell me again about how Obama is in bed with GE/MSNBC and the “climate change” cabal, kowtowing to the rest of the world about how we screwed up the planet by polluting it beyond redemption - and how we are giving taxpayer dollars to countries who do a much better job of polluting their own countries than we do, because we so need to redeem ourselves for polluting the planet before they got a chance to.
And you are a leftist media whore.
By JB on 11-24-09
Oh, and KN - you’re absolutely right.
By the way on 11-24-09
Too bad the article didn’t mention a little something the Obama administration has done and is still doing to help small business. I know firsthand for a fact it is helping keep families alive. Remember Barrack promising us he’d write a whole bunch more SBA loans than usual? He did it. And when the recession didn’t lift soon enough for recipients to make the payments he created another loan to do that, this one being interest-free. If nothing else it keeps some people in business long enough to write a few more paychecks to employees who would otherwise be history. I have heard that some local businesses found out about all this too late and have failed. Others such as myself have awesome bankers who are on top of the situation and take really good care of their customers! Thank you, Flathead Bank. Awesome.
By Kokanee on 11-24-09
Hard to keep businesses afloat if people do not have money to spend !!!!
By the way on 11-24-09
Exactly, Koke! We CAN’T stay afloat but the gov’t does not want us to die so they are helping. Sooner or later things will get better, (right?) and people will have money to spend and we can pay back the loan. Or not, but at least our bankruptcy and death has been delayed. We tried.
By mooseberryinn on 11-25-09
Remember - for every one of the billions of dollars the regime prints, the overall value of same decreases. That’s called inflation. Massive and very costly inflation should be arriving by the end of next year, if not sooner. thank you very much o-bummer.
By woody on 11-25-09
mooseberry just informed us of his utter lack of economic understanding…...
1. the bailout monies printed by the fed - now up to 20+ trillion are not being loaned out -
and if the money doesn’t hit the general market for dollars then inflation won’t happen…...
2.and many dollars - a majority actually - leave the USA and NEVER return - they are used as a “global currency” - also won’t cause an increase in inflation….
3. most of the money is a figment of the bankers imagination - currently there is a Fed program - (that they tell us is to increase Banks deposit requirements) where the banks can borrow money for free from the Federal Reserve(zero interest) and then can re-deposit it back in the Fed and they get paid a 5% return. THAT is the real money they then siphon into their Swiss Bank accounts.
And the real danger is the Federal Debt - it now runs over 350 Billion a year on Interest alone!
If countries think we’re going to bankrupt ourselves then they will quit using the Dollar as the global currency and THAT WILL lead to massive inflation.
And we all remember our history lessons right?
the REPUBLICANS have caused around 90% of the ENTIRE federal debt.
1. Reagan took a debt of less than a trillion and ran it up to 3 trillion in 8 years. (AND spent all the Social Security money that would ahve ore than paid for SS for the next 100 years.)
result - 3 trillion in debt added to the gov.
2. bush senior - the debt went from 3 to 5 trillion.
3. clinton debt went from 5 -to 6 trillon in 8 years- an increase of 1 trillion ( not bad - he even balanced a budget! something the RETHUGS have NEVER DONE!
4. shrub bush - debt went from 6 trillon to 12 trillon - increase of 6 trillion
so of the 12 trillion in federal debt less than 1 trillion by the presidents from washington to carter…
reagan +2.3 trillion
bush Senior - +2
bush the shrub +6
so 10 out of the 12 trillion in federal debt was caused by the rightwingnuts that have ruined the country -
and that money was funneled straight to the corporate thieves running(ruining) the country….
so Mooseberry must also hate the republicans if he wasnt’ a hypocritical self-proclaimed corporate hack like JB -
their rightwing bigoted minds can’t handle the truth!
By Kokanee on 11-25-09
And the whole time this was going on Democrats sat idly by with their head bent low going woe is us we cannot do anything we do not have a ball to play with. I maybe wrong but Clinton inherited a legacy of improving economy from whom Woody. Do you honestly believe that it is all one parties fault, they did this and they did that. Come on it is this one sided B.S. that got us here united we stand divided we fall ever heard of this concept.
By woody on 11-25-09
democrats are by and large either sell-outs to the corporations and big money - ie a republican in sheeps clothing….. or cowards…..
and if Bush sr had had such a great economy going he would have been RE-ELECTED.
Arguing that Bush senior led to the clinton growth years is called revisionist history….
and believed by those that lack a decent education…... which is why the republicans want to destroy the education system - and have succeded in large part…..
and I’m with you on the 2 party duopoly - but thinking that deregulating big business is the answer is like saying you can get in shape thru the 16 oz arm curl ...
which is why I suggest people look into the Green party as an answer to the non-sustainable lifestyle that corporate america has forced down our throats…...
and all for the short term buck…...
which is why the game Monopoly was created during the great depression - it was an educational tool to show how big business is like a cancer just waiting to take over every space on the board and double or triple the rent - and the game shows how the end product of unbridled capitalism leads to one entity owning the entire board and then as they say - “game over”
By woody on 11-25-09
and the doubling and tripling of rent is realized thru bubbles and busts and the creation of debt…............