Comments on: Kalispell City Council Approves Airport Upgrade
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By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 11:48 am
Looks like Quiet Skies have to hit the street and do it one vote at a time to put a check in their win column.
Problem is, if on the ballot, most voters will see they will spend a few million of local funds
either to upgrade the airport, or the same amount to close it or not do the FAA funding.
This will be a no-brainer for the intelligent voter to see they spend the same money and
get a vastly improved and safer airport instead of trashing the existing one and watching
millions fly away instead of keeping a valuable community asset.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 2:21 pm
Well, sounds like we need a fly-in. Anybody up for it? Hot dogs on me (as usual)
By EnPrime on 07-17-12 @ 2:39 pm
The Fascist Five have done it again and put the taxpayers on the line for millions.
Fake Fiscal Conservative Jeff Zauner has teamed up with the most extreme left wing liberal
members the Council has ever known:
Nanny State Advocate Jim Atkinson - can’t tax the voters enough.
Professional Gov’t Programmer Randy Kenyon - can’t spend it fast enough.
Wishy Washy Kari Gabriel - just can’t.
Flip Flopper Wayne Saverud - can’t make any decision that might benefit the taxpayer ever.
These mental giants have just committed us and our children to a debt that will survive into
perpetuity.
The next City election cycle can’t come soon enough. Show these clowns the door.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 2:45 pm
Mr. EnPrime (AKA Mental Giant). I assume you know that the option they voted for will create jobs in Kalispell, build valuable infrastructure attract outside money, while lowering to near eliminating
the tax burden on the people of Kalispell and the best part is, the money doesn’t come out of your
paycheck whatsoever, it comes from aviation funds collected from aviation users. And that’s not
debt, that’s money already in the bank for aviation projects. Go ahead and spin it as a political
thing, you’re going to anyway.
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 3:17 pm
EnPrime, dude….. get a grip. Everything that does not go your way does not mean you get to solve the issue by flapping your jaw and your name calling tirades.
Quiet Sky’s followers are the most utterly useless folks ever assembled…
They started out not wanting noise. Then it was “close” the airport. Then it was “leave it
alone” and they’ll live with the noise. Now its taxes!
Left wing or right wing…. the flippin’ bird in the middle is dyslectic. :D
Don’t let the forward looking community door hit you on the way out of life.
By EnPrime on 07-17-12 @ 3:51 pm
@ piperpeterSame song, second verse. Have you nothing else? Anything at all? We’ve been hearing this drivel
from you for months - it’s not gonna cost the taxpayers anything…yeah right.
@ Logical
“Dude”? What are you in Jr. High School?
I have no association with the Quiet Skies group, nor would I. I have never subscribed to their
beliefs and it is wrong of you to assume that anyone who is against an airport expansion is
automatically linked to them. Rather, I’m looking at this from a fiscal standpoint and the
impact to the Kalispell taxpayers, which is significant.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 3:54 pm
Look at the numbers, they don’t lie because you say and think there will be a negative economic impact doesn’t mean there will be and in fact, your stance is in direct opposition to what studies and
just basic math shows. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant.
By JosephineDoody on 07-17-12 @ 4:09 pm
Piperpilot-Fascinating how it is that you always accuse the opposing view of the very thing you are most
guilty of.
Clearly, it is you who is confused and doesn’t understand the numbers. The numbers don’t lie and
it is the taxpayers that are going to get hosed with cost over-runs and an airport that will
still be unable to fund itself.
Evidently, it is you who doesn’t have a grasp on simple math and can’t reconcile that fact. But
don’t let that stand in the way of attempting to frame the narrative to your bests interests.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 4:14 pm
Show me the numbers… All I have is the Stelling report which shows that for the taxpayers of Kalispell, the AIP funded option makes the most financial sense for the city. The people who pay into
that fund WANT the funds to go to airports. Instead of telling me I’m lying, go disprove it, I’ll link to the
studies and 3 examples within 100 miles of Kalispell to show where you’re wrong.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 4:26 pm
Call Polson, Ronan, Kellogg ID, Hamilton, Stevensville, Thompson Falls, Plains for nearby examples of where AIP funds have enabled the airport to not be a burden on the city (oops, better
not call stevi, they used the funds to pay teachers instead of spend it on the airport and the FAA
still come through on their end).
Upgrade option: $16 million project eligible for up to $13.5 million that’s 2.5 million for the city to
come up with. Then the Feds toss in 125K per year for 20 years making it a virtually free for the
taxpayers of kalispell. PLUS the city get’s reimbursed for 3,000,000 already spent. Don’t forget,
they won’t bury the 13.5 mil under the airport. that money will be used to hire local folks and boost
the economy in the area, the best part is, the folks who pay into the fund where the 13.5 comes
from WANT IT SPEND ON AIRPORTS. We won’t even count the 125K/year payments or the
economic boss the upgrade gives the city and call it COST: 2.5 million for upgrade.
- CLOSING IT Estimate 4.8 million just to buy out leases, lose the 3 million already invested. We
won’t even mention the economic loss from the AIP funds or the folks who’ll lose their jobs and
businsses’: COST: 7.8 million dollars
- City Funded repair to current standard - 3.8 million and no refund on the 3 milliion already spend.
We won’t even count the money it will cost to maintain the airport while the patrons taxes go
somewhere else: COST 6.8 Millon
Now tell me how 2.8 > 6.8 or 2.8 > 7.8?
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 4:41 pm
EnRaged One…. Dude, sir? ok you are not in Quiet Skies… you still are guilty of no solution better than calling names. Propose a solution rather than burn your gums.
The FAA is going to pay for most of it. Kalispell gets 4 million already spent paid back….
what part is fiscally irresponsible?
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 4:44 pm
Not in Quiet Skies? Dang. I thought we only had 198 left to go to get to the the “hundreds” Scott spoke about, now it’s back to finding the other 199.
By JosephineDoody on 07-17-12 @ 5:09 pm
“The FAA is going to pay for most of it.” Ah yes, all that free FAA money.You (along with Zauner, Gabriel, Atkinson, Saverud and Kenyon) must think the taxpayers are stupid.
The taxpayers aren’t stupid and it looks like they may have a chance to prove that with a
proposed referrendum. You two are selling alright…the voters just aren’t buying.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 5:14 pm
JosephineDoody is invited to find one example of the hundreds of airports utilizing AIP funds where the FAA didn’t hold up their end of the bargain. The taxpayers in general may not be stupid, but a
few are.
AIP OPTION: $2.8 Million AND $125K per year fund to maintain it
CLOSE IT: $6.8 MIllion AND lost revenue for local businesses
CITY FUNDED: $7.8 Million AND the taxpayers must pay to keep it open.
What info do you have that the FAA will make an exception for Kalispell and NOT pay their end of
the bargain? I’d love to know, heads will roll if you have reliable information.
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 5:18 pm
No Doody….. the taxpayers are not stupid but I have my doubts about you from your misunderstanding of FAA money comments.
Doody is good descriptor for your thinking.
FAA money is pre collected from airline, aviation gas and other non-payroll or property tax
related collections. None of the FAA will you notice or miss from your pocket change.
Plus Kalispell gets a safer better and better economic gateway for future investors for the
next 50 years and beyond. Stop your whining with EnRaged.
Perhaps you should be railing against some other really expensive government project out
there like….. studying vapor trails from Honda Civics in Florida.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-17-12 @ 6:14 pm
What a complete waste of tax payer money to pay for the recreation of a few selfish pilots. Being a business owner and tax payer in the City of Kalispell, I think this is the biggest travesty I have
ever seen.
But what do you expect from tax and spend liberals like Kenyon, Atkinson, Zauner, Gabriel and
Savarud. Our Federal Gov’t is broke and 15 trillion in debt and has spent our future generations
money into oblivion and these brainiacs keep spending other people’s money like there is no
tomorrow. What is it about liberals that they like to spend other people’s money so much?
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 6:41 pm
We are hearing from folks who will never get it. Everything is wrong and blamed on political handedness.
Mr Right of Center blames the state of the world and the choice of a city council to
upgrade a city institution on a few “selfish” pilots. Which selfish ones?
The pilots who used their own planes and helicopters to rescue horses, pets, hunters,
snowcaters and rafters on crappy days while you watched FOX NEWS and griped about
Obama? Or maybe the fellow who landed at Kalispell City looking for a commercial
building and ended up moving a 10 million dollar business to Kalispell with 50 employees?
Or the scores of youths who learned to fly there and went on protect and defend by
becoming elite airmen and women in all branches of our services? Or maybe the Kalispell
SWAT team who practice rappelling down 1000 foot ropes there? Or maybe search and
rescue are the selfish ones for huddling in the snow on a mountain side waiting for a ride
back to City Airport and some warm soup supplied by a local restaurant?
What is it about you that forces you to label repairing a 83 year old airport to modern
standards with PRECOLLECTED-NO DEBT FAA FUNDS—- as politically motivated
liberalism?
This money is AVIATION money and closer to user funded than 98% of any other government projects that pass under your nose everyday, yet you make it sound like the
pilot bulls are bucking you off your mechanical wallet.
Airports are no different than roads, bridges, sewers, city parks and other infrastructure.
They and the airport are part of the acceptable and necessary fabric of society.
All we get from you is sound bites from cable news and name calling.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-17-12 @ 7:07 pm
I get it alright, the entire citizen population is being duped into paying for a few pilot’s recreational activities, many of who do not even live in the city. This little airport is nothing but a huge financial
drain on the good citizens of the city of Kalispell. Those who want to use other people’s hard
earned money for their recreational activities should be completely ashamed of themselves.
It is time for Local Governments and State Governments to say no to Federal Gov’t handouts.
Simpletons like LogicalOne and PiperPilot seem to think this money somehow falls out of the sky
or grows on trees. Don’t you get it the Federal Gov’t is completely broke with a budget deficit of 1
trillion this year and a national debt well above 15 trillion dollars. The only way the Federal Gov’t
gives us money is by turning on the printing press and spending our children and grandchildren’s
future into oblivion.
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 8:21 pm
You DON’T get it RightoffCenter. You are hysterical.
There is NO money going to the airport that is part of your BIG Government conspiracy or
the USA’s 15 trillion dollar debt. NONE of the funding has been or will be borrowed by the
FAA to fund the upgrades to our airport. None.
Simpletons like me understand that fact, yet you blast around name calling, screaming
doom and gloom for your hard earned money that you put ZERO into for this project.
You may convince other blind eyes and fact wreckers, but you are wrong as rain.
Sore losers resort to your tactics. Huge drain? Show me on your tax statement
ANYTHING that has to do with city airport. You can’t because nothing is there…. like your
facts.
The United States did not start out debt free; and all nations, or conquering nations have financed society since your fore-father knocked your fore-mother on the head with a club
and dragged her home to start a family which begat a nation.
Lower your perceived order on the food chain, please? Your rhetoric will save nothing.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-17-12 @ 8:32 pm
LogicalOne, did your mother beat you over the head with a stupid stick when you were a baby or what? When the Federal Government is 15 trillion in debt and is running a 1 trillion dollar deficit
year after year we are broke. We have to start by not accepting Federal Gov’t handouts to fund
people’s recreational activities like yours. If you want to engage in your recreational activity at that
little airport you should pay for it yourself and quit expecting hard working tax payer to pay for it.
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 8:51 pm
Nope sorry, my momma beat me with a smart stick.
So what if you think the nation is broke? The FAA AIP fund is full of cash not coming out
of or adding to the nations deficit. It is a pre collected user fee. What part of that don’t you
understand?
What has the nation being “broke” got to do with the funds that are sitting there, earmarked
for fixing this airport?
Show me where you draw that correlation, and show me that the airport is just for
recreation of a few “spoiled pilots.
You need a beating with a logic stick and a knowledge stick. Stop placing yourself on a
measurement between left and right, good and bad, dumb and smart and numb and alert
and telling everyone else your position is absolute. You are wrong in every quadrant.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 9:10 pm
Read between the lines, these so called righties, they’re buying into the Obama class warfare argument, it’s not enough that aviation fees are collected for and used for aviation. Aviation in this
country is more than self sufficient and as such they want the fees/taxes that we pay all over the
place on the good faith that it’s earmarked for aviation projects to go towards other things they feel
more entitled too that they feel directly effects them, even though the airport does, they’re just to
blind to see it.
If Kalispell doesn’t take the money, somebody else will. It’s going to get collected from pilots and
airplane operators anyway. So make your cute little anti-government stand for your false cause
based on false beliefs and made up numbers, you’re only hurting yourself.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-17-12 @ 9:12 pm
Your comments show that your mommy did beat you over the head with a stupid stick. If the Federal Gov’t has a budget deficit of 1 trillion dollars every year and owes a national debt of over 15
trillion, it has no money sitting anywhere. Do you not understand that the Federal Gov’t takes in 1
trillion dollars less every year than it spends? There is no money sitting anywhere, it has to be
printed to make up the difference between what it spends and what it takes in.
Your little scheme to have the Federal Gov’t more money printed to pay for your recreation is a real
dirty trick to play on future generations who will have to pay for your recreation. You should feel
real proud of yourself. Of course that is what is bringing this country to its’ knees financially,
people like you thinking they are entitled to other people’s money for their own selfish interests.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 9:15 pm
RIGHTOFCENTER
I’ll keep this simple.
You do realize that not one cent of your money goes to the AIP funds unless you happen to utilize
the aviation system correct?
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 9:16 pm
Like I said, they want the money sitting in the aviation account to pay for what they want, not what the account is for.
By piperpilot on 07-17-12 @ 9:18 pm
Those richy rich pilots have all that money they’ve been saving for their stupid little airports, it should be redistributed to ME… Hmmm where have I heard that from? Maybe change your name to
LEFTOFCENTER you sound like an Obama speech writer.
By LogicalOne on 07-17-12 @ 9:39 pm
Let me keep it simple for you….. yes and I/We pay into the AIP without reservation because our fore-fathers valued aviation, and I gladly use it and fund it. It is an economy unto itself.
FAA, NASA, USDA Forest Service, Armed Forces, law enforcement and us little bumps in
the private sector and you are b itching about a 600 foot upgrade to our local airport and
using every anti-government cop-out to make me feel bad about my nation, my
government and myself?
By 5YearLapelTac on 07-17-12 @ 9:50 pm
Jeff Zauner and his business savvy - what business savvy? What business has Jeff Zauner ever successfully run? He has ZERO understanding of business and good business savvy. If he had, he
wouldn’t vote to lock the taxpayers into an annual subsidy of an enterprise fund.
Jeff Zauner is so out of his depth on this Council it should be embarrasing to him. Too bad he has
no shame.
By 3Hills on 07-17-12 @ 10:04 pm
Neither Atkinson, Kenyon, Saverud, Zauner, or Gabriel did ANY research, offered ANY data, to refute or rebutt the arguments given by Mayor Fisher, Guiffrida, Kluesner and Hafferman.
Remember when Atkinson said that Mayor Fisher needed a rebuttal? Yet these 5 geniuses
provided none whatsoever. They sat on their hands and said nothing.
That’s representation? That’s what we voted for?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 6:29 am
Let’s keep this really simple for simpletons like PiperPilot and IllogicalOne. The Federal Gov’t is broke and these two brainiacs want more money printed that we don’t have in order making all of us
in this country pay for their little recreational activity at that airport that no one needs. SHAME!
SHAME! SMAME!. No wonder PiperPilot can afford to buy hotdogs, since we are all paying for his
recreational activities, he should buy hotdogs for all the citizens in the United States.
By Bonnie S on 07-18-12 @ 7:15 am
How can anyone expect Zauner, Kenyon, Gabriel or Atkinson to vote in favor of the taxpayers when none of them have successfully run businesses of their own? None of them have the first clue of
what it means to be fiscally responsible. Gabriel, Kenyon and Atkinson have never signed the front
of a paycheck rather, they’ve sucked off the taxpayer teat their entire adult lives. Zauner’s business
experience is cloudy at best (as history has shown) and Saverud is a complete conundrum as a
business owner, who, while on the City Council has consistently made anti-business decisions
time and time again. So, it’s no mystery why these five individuals continue to beat the living
daylights out of the taxpayers of Kalispell. THEY DON’T GET IT when it comes to financial matters.
When it comes time for the next election cycle, NO ONE who has spent his/her entire career as a
Government employee or Government Program Recipient should ever be elected to serve on a City
Council or in the County Commissioners Office. Those who get a guranteed paycheck from the
Government have NO PROBLEM spending the taxpayers money.
By DanglingChad on 07-18-12 @ 7:24 am
Kalispell Voters:
How does it feel to be told by Atkinson, Kenyon, Gabriel, Zauner, and Saverud that YOU ARE TOO
STUPID TO VOTE?
By Maria on 07-18-12 @ 7:39 am
What kind of a m0ron calls for the question in order to shut down a discussion that has a monumental effect on the taxpayers of Kalispell? Jeff Zauner, that’s who.
The little plan he obviously hatched with Kenyon (caught on camera), to call for the question was
rightly rejected by the Mayor. Zauner’s alliance with Kenyon simply proves that he is out to fleece
the taxpayers of Kalispell by hanging us with a 2.2 Million Dollar taxpayer funded expansion of the
airport for the recreation purposes of 75 pilots. Jeff Zauner has alligned himself with the most leftist
liberal on the Council [sans Atkinson & Gabriel] to ram this expansion down our throats.
Jeff Zauner is going out of his way to dig his heels in on this airport expansion which begs the
question…what’s in this for you, Mr. Zauner?
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:03 am
The Federal Government has nothing to do with it. That money was taken from me and put into a fund for airport projects. Why do you feel more entitled to my money for projects you feel are more worthy
that what I paid into the fund for? You want to use it to pay down debt, it was not collected for debt, I
paid it knowing it was going to be used on aviation yet you feel entitled to it for what you want?
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:07 am
From the looks of the trolls on this comment section, you are to stupid to vote.
By JosephineDoody on 07-18-12 @ 8:31 am
Now who’s name calling? PeterPiper.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:38 am
Like I’ve said before, we’re all too stupid to vote, the issue is complex. RIGHTOFCENTER is quite obviously just trolling and ranting about things that he/she dreams up that aren’t reality. You
apparently knew how much more expensive the AIP option was until I pointed out the numbers for
you and nobody else apparently even cares what was actually voted on, they’d rather just complain
about the councilmen who voted.
For 80 some odd years now Kalispell has had an airport. You either have to maintain it or close it,
do you think someone is just going to swoop in here and pay for it and make it better for you? Oh
wait… there is, its called the FAA and the Aviation community.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 8:53 am
Brainiac PiperPilot says the Federal Gov’t has nothing to do with a Federal funded airport expansion and he put the money in a fund to expand the airport. We should all thank PiperPilot for
expanding this airport. The last 10 years of talking about a Federally funded expansion have all
been B.S., because all along PiperPilot has been putting money into a fund to pay for it.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:59 am
The FAA is a bureaucracy of the Federal Government. This is true. The funds having nothing to do with the debt and printing new money etc.. etc.. etc.. that you’ve been ranting on about. It’s not
funded through the general fund, it’s not collected from your paycheck, the money’s not borrowed
from China. The FAA collects the money from aviation puts it in an account and spends it on
aviation. It’s just a big pool of money collected from aviation, for aviation. You won’t find it an a
budget that congress passes and it’s not going to get spent to pay off any debt. Aviation paid it for
aviation. Your rants about “printing more money”, “putting our grandchildren in debt” have ZERO to
do with this money. The part of the federal government you’re talking about has absolutely
NOTHING to do with the AIP funds. I know, it ruins your rant, but don’t let that stop you.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 9:08 am
PiperPilot seem to think mental midgets like Atkinson and Kenyon are smarter than the citizens of the people of Kalispell to vote on this issue. His illogical rants about a Federally funded airport
expansion not requiring money printing and borrowing money from China show that he is as
ignorant as Kenyon and Atkinson. I would submit to you that Kenyon, Atkinson, Saverud, Gabriel,
Zauner, PiperPilot and IlogicalOne are the ones too stupid to vote on this.
I would put my faith in the Kalispell citizens ability to make the right decision on this over these
above brainiacs any day of the week.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 9:12 am
So your rebuttal is to call me stupid because you have no point. GENIUS! If I put money in a savings account to buy a car later on, does the government have to print new
money and borrow from China? This is exactly what you are saying and it’s incredibly stupid.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 9:32 am
Let’s see how right of center you are..
What do you suppose we do with all that money that was collected from pilots and aircraft operators
under the guise of using it for airport improvement projects?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 8:09 pm
Me doth think Piperpilot doth protest too much. He has to keep his little scam going of trying to convince the good citizens of Kalispell to pay for his recreation. What a grand scheme this is.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the citizens of Kalispell would fund the recreational activities of all of us? It
used to be that people would be ashamed of themselves for taking other people’s money for their
own recreational activities. No wonder our country is bankrupt. Piperpilot is a great example of
why our government is broken. This big scam only benefits a few greedy pilots, many of who do
not live in the City of Kalispell.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:16 pm
Why don’t you explain the scam I have going to the readers instead of just making baseless accusations and name calling? Go ahead, explain it, we’re listening.
Fairly simple question posed to you. Here’s your chance to show us show us how right wing you
are tell us what we should do with the federal funds collected from aircraft operators and earmarked
for aviation.
P.S. I’m not the one protesting.
P.P.S. I’ll tell ya’ what wastes government money, it’s when you have a bunch of naysayers yelling
blindly in the air and screaming hysterically about things that aren’t true and scenarios that don’t
exist. Just wasting everyone’s time.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 8:21 pm
Here’s your chance to convince me that this is anything more than a big scam for you to get Federal Gov’t money to pay for your recreation.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:22 pm
Do you think when you retire that you’re scamming the government out of the Social Security money you have paid in?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 8:33 pm
Just as I thought, piperpilot wants to change the subject because it is crystal clear that he is trying to get Federal Gov’t money to pay for his recreation. Look the fact of the matter is is that I pay
taxes in the City of Kalispell and this little airport provides zero benefit to me. But based on
piperpilot’s continuing diatribe he has a lot to gain with this.
We get it, this is extremely important to piperpilot to get the rest of the tax payers in Kalispell to
help pay for his recreation. I just do not agree with his little scheme and therefore will do what is
necessary to put a stop to it.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 8:36 pm
Nope, not changing the subject, there you go attacking me instead of the argument. Airplane folks pay into the FAA system and expect to get airports, approaches, ATC services out of it. You pay into
social security and expect to get your retirement check out of it. If pilots are scamming the system by
paying the FAA to keep airports up to date, you’re scamming it to expecting to get an SS check that
was collected from you for SS.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-18-12 @ 8:58 pm
I can understand Atkinson, Kenyon, Gabriel and Saverud telling the tax paying citizens of Kalispell that they are TOO STUPID TO VOTE!, but I thought Zauner would know better. It sure is a shame
that Zauner has turned out the way he has on the council. A lot of us had high hopes for him. We
never thought he would join in with far left tax and spend liberals like Kenyon and Atkinson.
By piperpilot on 07-18-12 @ 11:29 pm
You are too stupid to vote, I’m too stupid to vote and possibly the council was too stupid to vote but, they should have been the most informed, educated and qualified to vote.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 6:35 am
Now look who’s name calling. But I agree with you on two things in your last post and they are that you are too stupid to vote and that some on the council were too stupid to vote. The people on
the council that were too stupid to vote are Atkinson, Kenyon, Gabriel, Saverud and Zauner. It’s
great that we finally agree on something Piperpilot.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 6:51 am
Enjoy your day.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 8:35 am
Give it up, ROC. It’s a waste of your time to try and reason with someone like PeterPiper who believes his own press.
Jim Jones would’ve loved Piper, as he would’ve gulped that kool-aid in just one chug.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 8:44 am
The best you can do is take pot shots at me?
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 8:52 am
Mrs. Doody, You started off our little discussion explaining how the taxpayers were going to get hosed. I then presented the numbers for you, and asked to please explain how taxpayers were
being hosed. You went silent, the make an appearance back here to take pot shots at me..
Why don’t you go ahead and explain to the audience, how giving the taxpayers a net 14,000,000
and removing the burden from them is “hosing” them? I’d love to see your explanation.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 9:24 am
Here’s another chance for Piperpilot to explain why this is nothing more than a big scam for him to get Federal money and the Citizens of Kalispell to subsidize his recreational activities.
Piperpilot must think that the more times he spews his B.S., the more people will believe him.
Just the opposite is true, the more he comments, the more obvious it has become to me that this
is nothing more than a big scam for him to get Federal funding and the Citizens of Kalispell to
subsidize his recreational activities.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 9:36 am
Please explain how the scam operates. Just saying there is a scam doesn’t make it so, you’re the only human on earth aparrently that knows what the scam is so please enlighten us all on how it
works.
What’s your solution?
You never answered what we should do with the aviation fund collected from aviation sources for
aviation projects? Show us how right wing you are tell us what to do with that money if not spend it
on the airports it was collected for.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 9:46 am
Give it up Piperpilot, we are all onto your gig. You can fool simpletons like Atkinson, Kenyon, Gabrial, Saverud and Zauner into subsidizing your recreational activities, but you can’t fool the rest
of us. You have yet to explain how this Federal money and Kalispell Citizens subsidy of this little
airport no one needs does anything more than pay for your recreation.
This property could be used for economic development if it is put to highest and best use, which
would significantly increase the property tax base that would not only benefit the City of Kalispell
tax payers, but would also benefit the schools. If it is put to its highest and best use it would also
have the potential to attact many businesses that would create many new jobs. But instead,
Piperpilot wants to lock us into nothing more than a drain on the citizens of Kalispell and lock us
into perpetually subsidizing his recreational activities.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 10:03 am
Well, the AIP funds alleviate the need for local subsidizes. That’s the whole point.
Do you want me to just ignore the fact that very little activity at the airport is recreational, I mean I
know it’s emotionally appealing to people who don’t know much about airports but it’s just not true?
Right now the AIP option is by far the cheapest option you have, and you get a decent airport out of
the deal and 3 million you’ve already spent back. That’s just the financials.
Ignoring that airports are economic development, all you’ve done is paint a broad picture, WHO
exactly is going to pay millions for a plot of land next to a waste treatment plant? Are there
businessmen standing around wanting to purchase the property? Go ahead and give us the plan for
you’re highest and best use, that’s awfully vauge.
Let’s hear about the investors looking to do something better with the airport? Saying “economic
development”, “create new jobs”, “highest and best use” are fun things to say but the reality is,
nobody is knocking at the door with a better plan. Not to mention, those avenues have already been
explored and the city was selling, but nobody was buying.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 10:37 am
PP: How are the taxpayers being hosed? Are you kidding? Are you impaired? Because you soundimpaired and here’s why:
On the DIL, you claim ignorance on this topic, yet of everyone on the blogs, you have the mosts
posts. Ironic isn’t it?
Secondly, $2.2 Million Dollars of taxpayer money is where the hosing comes in. You are so
convinced that the FAA (AKA Santa Claus) is standing at the ready just waiting to ink that $3
million dollar check back to us. Puhleeeese! You must also think the moon is made of green cheese.
Your slobbering love affair with the FAA is pornified to say the least. If you expect us to
believe that we’re getting all of that $3 million dollars back, you must really believe we are
as stupid as the Council believes us to be.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 10:43 am
So you’re saying the FAA is lying to you? On what grounds do you make that observation? Their history shows otherwise. The AIP fund is not new, there’s hundreds of airports around the country
that utilize it and none that I’m aware of have ever not received the funding they were promised. So
please find an example of where the FAA didn’t hold up their end of the deal otherwise you’re just
making baseless accusations against an FAA program that has worked well in every other instance
it’s been utilized.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 10:45 am
I haven’t claimed ignorance on the topic, I claimed that the issue is complex and I am not qualified to make the decision. From the looks of the blogs nobody else posting is either. I do know a little bit
about the business, and I’m 100% biased so when I see BS trying to be floated as fact, I call it. You’ve
noted that I have a lot of posts at the DIL, that’s because there’s a lot of BS to call.
By Maria on 07-19-12 @ 10:54 am
PeterPiper
The City Airport is an Enterprise Fund, brainiac. It is supposed to operate WITHOUT taxpayer
subsidy.
My taxes go to the airport every year as the local taxpayer has been subsidizing this airport to
the tune of 10K-30K annually from the General Fund. I pay the FAA with seat taxes everytime I
fly. If the FAA would decrease the tax to what it acutally needs instead of a duplication in
services, my money could be pumped into the local economy because consumer spending would increase.
If so many pilots use the airport, why are tie-down revenues HALF of what they were in 1979?
And,,,who told the tall tale to the public when they stated “the airport is solvent and operates
in the black.”? That would be Pam Kennedy, Fred Leistiko, Scott Richardson, and Charlie Harball.
More backroom shenanigans and lack of transparency which were the hallmark of Kennedy’s tenure -
the residuals of which we continue to suffer today.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 11:01 am
PP:
Here’s what you said on the DIL:
“I’m quite comfortable stating that I don’ t have the level of expertise needed to make the
decision that the council made. I’ve put my fair share of time into studying the options based
on what information was released to the public, but i haven’t sat in the meetings with engineers
nor read even 1/10th of the paperwork that has been drawn up and resarched over the years. I
don’t have enough information on the resources available to Kalispell to make the decision. I
have done nowhere near the due diligence needed to make a decision on the future of the airport.”
Again, you said,
“.. I don’ t have the level of expertise needed…
“... i haven’t sat in the meetings with engineers nor read even 1/10th of the paperwork that has
been drawn up and resarched over the years.”
“... I don’t have enough information on the resources available…
“... I have done nowhere near the due diligence needed to make a decision on the future of the
airport.”
Now if that’s not a claim of ignorance, I don’t know what is. They’re your own words.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 11:06 am
The AIP funds are the way to get rid of the local subsidy and are far cheaper than any other option the city has for the local taxpayers. The taxes collected on fuel and airplane parts etc… at the
airport go to the AIP fund, not locally, the way to get them back and operate without subsidy is to
take the AIP funds.
So you want a free ride on aviation system I see. I would really like to see how people learn to fly
when there’s no airports to learn at because there’s no money to maintain them. Nobody ever
accused the FAA of being the most efficient entity on earth, they are a gigantic bureaucracy after all
but as such, it’s the situation we’re in and for a bureaucracy they’re pretty darn good, the best in the
world as a matter of fact. They have issues, but when it comes to airports,airmen,aircraft and safety
they can’t afford to be wrong. If you want to fight your ticket tax battles with the FAA at the Kalispell
City Airport… so be it. Good luck. The only people who’ll suffer will be the the citizens of Kalispell.
Perhaps tie-down revenues are down because the city airport needs an update to make it more
attractive. Who cares about tie down revenue anyway? It’s a trivial expense for a few local based
pilots. People who come and visit Kalispell don’t pay tie down fees. You guys do realize that
aviation as a recreational activity for local folks is just a benefit of having the airport, it’s not the
reason. People actually do go places in planes for all sorts of reasons.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 11:10 am
Well Maria I really feel for you.
The system let you down. Now deal with it. Pull your socks up and get on with life.
You don’t need to be calling the winners in this fight stupid, and 20/20 hind-sight coulda-
supposta-shoulda your loss on and on ad nauseum..
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 11:12 am
Good try Doody. I’ll venture a guess that I’m more informed than You,Maria,Scott,ROC etc.. based on your display of knowledge. The fact I’m aware that I haven’t spent days,weeks,moths years studying
the complex problem to the point I’d feel comfortable making a decision and you are ought to tell you
something. Unlike the collective here, I don’t claim to know everything.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 11:13 am
Oh this is rich.
First you say this:
” So you’re saying the FAA is lying to you? On what grounds do you make that observation?”
Then you make my case for me by saying this:
“..Nobody ever accused the FAA of being the most efficient entity on earth, they are a gigantic
bureaucracy after all… They have issues…
NO KIDDING! Forgive me if I don’t put all my faith into a government agency like you obviously
have and until this very moment have FINALLY consented that the FAA may not be the Kris Kringle
you’ve been so defensive of in all your other blogs.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 11:17 am
Nice try, PP. But, that’s exactly what you have laid claims to…to know everything. As someonestated a while back, whith your vast fund of knowledge about aviation, why are you languishing
away here in NW Montana when you could be exercising your vast intellect in Washington DC where
it could really do some good? You sell yourself short, sir.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 11:18 am
No, I didn’t. Being dishonest and not giving the funds promised and being inefficient are two totally different things. The logic some of you people use is stunning. You forgot to mention where i said they
were the best in the world.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 11:22 am
I have never claimed to know everything, but I do fly, I do hang out at airports and I have been involved with a couple of AIP projects which is probably more than you can say. But, why don’t you just keep
attacking me instead of actually discussing the issue at hand, I know it’s easier for you.
By Maria on 07-19-12 @ 11:22 am
Poor Logical One (a play on words, obviously).
You sound a bit like the former, embittered, ousted mayor Pammy Kennedy who got her behind
handed to her by 66% of the vote. She’s probably still sore from the beating she took.
Winners in this fight you say? Really? If you think this is over, that would be inaccurate. The
voters will get the final say one way or the other. Either in the form of a referendum, or at
the polls in the next cycle. As a resident and property owner in Kalispell, I will gladly sign
any petition that returns the people’s vote to them.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 11:27 am
Really PP?
You admit that the FAA is a “gigantic bureaucracy”. You admit the FAA has “issues”. And…you
say they are the “best in the world”. So which is it, PP?
Here is a text book example of someone who wants to have their cake and eat it too.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 11:27 am
Yep you all have lost.
Until there is rematch… which you as losers have EARN…. enjoy the crow.
But we don’t have to eat your crow with you….. you lost.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 11:29 am
Sorry I left out a word….
Yep you all have lost.
Until there is rematch… which you as losers have to EARN…. enjoy the crow.
But we don’t have to eat your crow with you….. you lost!
By Maria on 07-19-12 @ 11:32 am
I’m perfectly comfortable with you thinking that, LogicalOne. It gives the voters a significantadvantage,
Just remember this:
“He who laughs last, laughs loudest.”
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 11:36 am
Hmm.. Imagine something not being absolutely perfect yet still being the best in the world. Perhaps the Somolia Aviation Administration could come show us a thing or two? You want to ride on Air
Ethiopia or American Airlines? If you’ve ever taken a successful flight, you can thank in part the
FAA, but you probably wouldn’t ride on a plane now that you know the FAA isn’t perfect.
Simply mind blowing logic displayed there Doody.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 11:42 am
The funny thing about politics is that referendum threats can go on forever…. so enjoy laughing, loud and last, Maria.
Piperpilot your are arguing with folks whose minds need a nap…. they are just tired of
losing the fight and are crabby.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 12:09 pm
Oh they just coughed up their teeth in their oatmeal this morning and the prunes aren’t working yet… Happens to everybody every now and then.
By Maria on 07-19-12 @ 1:17 pm
Poor Logical One…it’s a shame you’re are unable to distinguish a threat from a committment.
Stay tuned.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 1:19 pm
PP:
Finally, a topic I’m quite sure you are an expert on…Prunes.
By 5YearLapelTac on 07-19-12 @ 1:30 pm
Mr. Guiffrida stated that the airport, which operates in the red, will continue to operate inthe red post-expansion. The City Manager confirmed this the night of the meeting yet the
anti-business members of the Council vote in favor anyway.
On what planet does it make sense to vote in favor of upgrading a system that already operates
in the red and will continue to operate in the red? When it comes to making good business
decisions, it should not be left up to 5 members of the Council who KNOW NOTHING about how a
business operates!
Oh wait…it’s possible Jeff Zauner might know something about operating a business in the red
afterall. Tell you what, the next time you run into Mr. Zauner, ask him about his business
experience.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:31 pm
Yeah my grandmother eats them with her Metamucil. Why waste your time doing nothing but attacking me? You’ve unearthed a gigantic FAA conspiracy/corruption that would headline the national
news tonight, shouldn’t you be getting the word out instead of picking on little ole’ me?
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 1:37 pm
It is you that has said the FAA was corrupt - and they very well could be, I can’t be sure.
I’ve only said I have no faith in them or any other gov’t agency for that matter. You on the
other hand, have a slobbering love affair with them and think they simply pass out checks for
the asking.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:38 pm
Never once did I ever say the FAA was corrupt.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 1:40 pm
PP: You said,
“You’ve unearthed a gigantic FAA conspiracy/corruption ...
Your words, not mine. Sheesh.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:44 pm
I’m not sure we should make decisions based on Josephine’s faith based initiative. But, we could look to other, similar projects that have happened in the not so distant past and get a good idea
about how the same program could benefit/hurt Kalispell. From my observation the AIP funded
airports have been a success. The difference between me and you is I know how the FAA works
and am well aware of their inefficiencies and bureaucratic processes, you’re just scared of the
boogeyman for no real reason.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:47 pm
That comment was in reference to you, when you said the FAA wouldn’t pay, it would be the first project that I’m aware of that they didn’t one would think that if you make accusations like that, you
must know something and the FAA promising funds then not paying would be a gigantic conspiracy
that would show up on the national news tonight.
Here’s where you said it:
PP: How are the taxpayers being hosed? Are you kidding? Are you impaired? Because you sound
impaired and here’s why:
On the DIL, you claim ignorance on this topic, yet of everyone on the blogs, you have the mosts
posts. Ironic isn’t it?
Secondly, $2.2 Million Dollars of taxpayer money is where the hosing comes in. You are so
convinced that the FAA (AKA Santa Claus) is standing at the ready just waiting to ink that $3
million dollar check back to us. Puhleeeese! You must also think the moon is made of green
cheese.
Your slobbering love affair with the FAA is pornified to say the least. If you expect us to
believe that we’re getting all of that $3 million dollars back, you must really believe we are
as stupid as the Council believes us to be.
By EnPrime on 07-19-12 @ 1:47 pm
I think PeterPiper has spouted off so much on this issue he can’t keep anything straight.
Give it up, Josie. These m0rons are intrenched. When you wallow in the mud with the pigs, all
you get is dirty. Your time is better spent on more productive things. You’ll never convince
these kool-aid drinkers. The really unfortunate thing is that they got Atkinson, Kenyon, Zauner,
Saverud and Gabriel to drink the kool-aid too.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 1:47 pm
It appears to me that IllogicalOne and PiedPiper are the same person. Same old story, same old B.S. of trying to get Federal Gov’t funding and the Kalispell citizens to pay for their recreational
activities.
I have a questions for PiperPilot, how many PiperPilots does it take to screw in a light bulb?
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 1:53 pm
I never used the word corruption…you did, and I find it very telling.
Also, you said, “FAA promising funds then not paying would be a gigantic conspiracy
that would show up on the national news tonight.”
The FAA “promising funds”. I laugh out loud at the mere thought of you believing this. BUT THEY
PROMISED! THEY REALLY, REALLY DID!
Uh-huh. Please let us all know how those “promises” from the a federal agency turn out. I can’t
wait to see.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:55 pm
You guys are great debaters, just calling the other side morons and making accusations that I have multiple personality disorder or something.
Then the irony of you accusing me of saying the same old story… That’s funny. I only keep saying it
because you keep repeating the same BS.
How many times have we heard that we’re trying to get Kalispell Citizens to pay for recreational
activities. When in fact the solution we’re in favor of relieves the burden from the kalispell residents
and maybe 1% of the activities at the airport are recreational.
I’ll keep posting it as long as you keep spewing it.
Hard to answer, are we talking a Piper Cub, A Cherokee or a Piper Jet?
A Cub would be 0, they don’t have electrical systems thus no need for a light bulb change.
A Cherokee would be 1, typically a GE 4509 light bulb, but they don’t screw in, so it’s a loaded
question.
I’ve never changed on in a Piper Jet.
I post only under piperpilot.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:56 pm
There’s hundreds of airports in the US that the FAA has promised the money to some in MT and some right in your backyard. Feel free to go ask them if they got their money.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 1:57 pm
Good job there Josephine Freud.
By DanglingChad on 07-19-12 @ 2:02 pm
Wow, “hundreds” huh? Like the “hundreds” Ol’ Scotty Davis was talking about? Those kind of“hundreds”?
Me thinks you and Scotty Davis have more in common than you realize.
And….impressive about your granny. She must be getting ready to set a record because you’re no
spring chicken yourself - at least from what I can tell on TV. I thought flying airplanes was
supposed to keep you young.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:04 pm
BUT THEY PROMISED! THEY REALLY, REALLY DID!
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:04 pm
I’m 32 She’s 90, you’ve never seen me on TV. Wrong again, but that’s nothing new for you.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:06 pm
You keep insinuating that you don’t think the FAA will pay? What basis do you have for that? History certainly doesn’t support your stance. and the only person I know who can predict the future is Scott Davis.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:11 pm
I better ask Mr. Davis to read my palm if that’s the case. I bet he’s got nothing on Jean Dixon.
If I’ve been insinuating I apologize. Let me be perfectly clear:
Putting one’s trust and faith into any gov’t agency is beyond foolish. ESPECIALLY if they’ve
made “promises”. It would be the equivalent of falling into a bucket of teats and coming out
sucking your thumb.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:14 pm
Yeah, sorry I misspoke, there’s been over 900 airports receive AIP funds this year so far and over 3,000 in the past 5 years. So, not hundreds, thousands.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:16 pm
Sounds like an issue with reality you have there Mrs. Doody. Thousands (Did I get it right) of airports operate on AIP funds thinking the FAA is going to make a lone exception for Kalispell is just being
irrational.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:21 pm
Uh-huh. Like Scott Davis’ “thousands”? Like that?
By DanglingChad on 07-19-12 @ 2:22 pm
Au contraire mon fraire.Me thinks we did see you on TV this week…and 32? Really? Come now.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:23 pm
Here you go http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/ click on search data and research for yourself. But, that probably won’t tell you much, you can’t trust the government to begin with so why would you believe
the data the FAA publishes?
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:26 pm
There you go thinkin’ again, hasn’t that gotten you in trouble before? I’m 32 for now, I’ll be 33 in 2 weeks.. if you saw a ridiculously good looking 32 year old male, it could have been me, but I haven’t
been anywhere near a TV camera that I know of, so probably not.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:26 pm
Exactly, PP! Now you’re catching on! And to think I’d almost given up on you.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:32 pm
I have a little cabin tucked away in the woods with a stock pile of Chinese made SKSs and cases and cases of Ammo for when the Illuminati comes… Maybe we can join forces and fight back against the
government when they come to implant the mark of the beast in us? You can stay there too if you can
hold your own, but be sure to wear your aluminum (not tin) foil hat.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:36 pm
Uh…no thanks. That’s what kooks do.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:40 pm
What? I thought you didn’t trust the government and wouldn’t depend on them? What other way can we fend for ourselves when we can’t trust our own country? Have you not seen the creepy stuff on the
dollar bill? “NUVUS ORDO SECLORUM” not on my watch.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:43 pm
Only a fool depends upon the Gov’t - you’ve proven that and subsequently affirmed all my talkingpoints.
Thank you.
BUT THEY PROMISED! THEY REALLY, REALLY DID!
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:44 pm
We shouldn’t talk here, they’re watching us and monitoring our every move.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:46 pm
You better check in with Scott Davis. As a predictor of the future, he could help you.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 2:49 pm
Poor Maria…. can’t tell a noun from a verb.
You are nouning us to death…... LOL HAHAH
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:49 pm
Good idea, he won’t return my calls and I’ve even offered to bring hot dogs.
By JosephineDoody on 07-19-12 @ 2:50 pm
Only hot dogs? What? No Kool-Aid? A pity.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 2:56 pm
It was Flavor-Aid but Scott Already has plenty to pass out. Problem is, nobody’s drinking it.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 3:31 pm
Remember when Pam Kennedy and other council members at that time were seen slobbering all over Fred Liestiko after he lost his council run and the next thing you know he was hired as Airport
Manager? Talk about Crony-ism. The former, disgruntled mayor will do and say anything in order to
keep her crony group in tact.
Airplanes above education and Piper’s personal recreation above education. SHAME!
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 4:00 pm
For someone who accuses people of posting the same ole’ drivel.. Pot, meet Kettle. At least my posts actually addressed your concerns instead of yelling over the top of you.
Wassamatter? Costco out of Fixodent and Metamucil this morning?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 4:07 pm
Interesting how the recent Beacon poll reflects nearly the same results as the landslide beating Pam Kennedy took from Tammi Fisher in the last Kalispell mayoral election. It is obvious from the
recent Beacon poll that the citizens are as opposed to this Airport expansion scam as they were
opposed to former Mayor Pam Kennedy. Looks like those signatures won’t be that difficult to get
afterall.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 4:30 pm
The airport expansion will have to have local tax dollars in order to pencil out. This is a fact that is indisputable. What about “running in the red” don’t you understand Piperpilot? Secondly when are
you going to answer the question of why you want Federal money and local tax payer dollars to
fund your recreational proclivities?
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 4:38 pm
I haven’t seen the long term projected forecast, I’ll gladly read it if you point this indisputable fact out for me. The numbers I saw showed the 125K/year would be more than enough to cover the current
costs of the airport. I can’t comment on if it will be enough to maintain the proposed airport, but you
seem to have indisputable facts that say as much, please show me this indisputable future that we
cannot avoid.
I want federal money because it’s the system I pay boo coos into to fly. if you would look at the
situation the airport is in right now, the cheapest option Kalispell has is to take the AIP funds..
You’ve proposed nothing better, at least Mrs. Doody just said she’s scared of the FAA, I think that’s
irrational but at least it’s something.
And P.S. MAYBE 3% of my flying is recreational in nature. Sometimes, I go to the airport and just
buzz around because I can. I can’t even remember the last time I did that though. Once again,
raving about something you don’t and couldn’t possibly know.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 5:39 pm
First of all if 3% of your flying is recreational, I don’t want to fund it with my tax dollars and I don’t think Federal funds should fund it. If your other 97% if business flying I don’t want to fund it and I
don’t think Federal funds should fund it. You should pay for your own business and recreational
expenses. I do not expect Federal funds or City of Kalispell tax payers to fund my recreation or
my business. You and I have a different idea on that. I have paid millions of business taxes over
the years, but do not expect the government or the City tax payers to subsidize my business or
my recreation. You do expect that and on that point we disagree. It’s kind of the difference
between the entitlement crowd and the non-entitlement crowd.
I’ve given a much better idea and that is to shut down the current airport and put that property into
its highest and best use, which would create a long term property tax revenue for the City of
Kalispell and help create much needed jobs into this valley.
Based on my analysis of the airport proposal, I believe it is undisputable that it will operate in the
red unless the Citizens of Kalispell subsidize it with local tax dollars.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 5:44 pm
No I don’t expect federal funds to pay for it. I expect the funds I put into the federal system to pay for it, not unlike you expect a SS check due to you putting money into.
Again, I didn’t say 97% of my business is flying. I said 3% was recreation. Do you consider driving
to the grocery store to be recreation? Do you consider visiting relatives to be recreation? Do you
consider carrying abused/abandoned dogs to new owners recreation?
I’ve asked you 3 times now and you’ve avoided the question, if the money I paid into the federal fund
that was sold to me and aviatiors all across the country to be for aviation is to not be used for
aviation, tell us what it should be used for. Go ahead, show us how right wing you really are. And
show us what an anti-entitlement person really thinks.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 5:52 pm
Nobody’s expecting anybody to subsidize anything, Your knuckle dragging council members of past have kicked a can down the road for the last 30 years instead of doing something about it. You
seem to have all the problems but none of the solutions, sounds like a democrat to me. What’s
happening right now, as we speak at the airport is that someone is fueling up their plane and 26
cents of every gallon they pump is being taken in and put in the AIP fund ans subsidizing
SOMEBODY ELSE.
What’s your solution? You’ve only offered to tear it down and put it to “highest and best use”. Well
that’s going to cost you at least 7.5 million before the first inch or runway is pulled up. The council
ALREADY TRIED to sell it off, don’t you get it? They already tried to find a highest and best use for
it, and DING DING DING a federally funded airport was the “highest and best use” they could find for
it. So unless you have 7.5 million in your pocket or know someone who does to to pay the city back
the 3 mill they have invested. then 4.5 to buy out the existing leases. Then a whole buncha lawyers
on retainer to fight off all the lawsuits from the disenfranchied lease holders. then enough money to
completly level over an airport and build something better, come up with something else. The city
has already looked, these people don’t exist. nobody want’s a 20 million dollar plot of land next door
to a sewage treatment plant.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-19-12 @ 5:53 pm
Oh calm down Piperpilot. Remember the Federal Gov’t is broke and the amount of money you’ve paid in a a mere pittance to what it will cost to expand this airport. If money must be spent on
airport improvements, I would want it spent somewhere where there isn’t already an International
Airport like GPI. I would also want in spent in a way that the citizens of a city like Kalispell do not
have to subsidize it. I would also want it spent in a location where it will benefit a large number of
people in the area instead of a few ameteur pilots and no one else in the City of Kalispell. I’ve been
in business in Kalispell for decades and this little airport has been of no benefit to me or anyone I
know whatsoever.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 6:11 pm
Yes, my contribution is a mere pittance. I freely admit that. All I do is buy gas there every once in a while and the taxes go straight to uncle same plus whatever profit red eagle makes off that goes a
small amount towards paying their lease. But, keep in mind that’s my small pittance, and there’s
local pilots based there and tons of people from out of town that have been inserting their tax dollars
into that pump day in and day out for decades and not one cent has come back to the airport. Now,
S27’s number has been called to back collect all that revenue the tenenats and patrons of S27 have
been paying in over the years and build a standards compliant nice airport. Your residents and
guests have been subsidizing airports all over the country for decades.
Is it needed with GPI so close? That’s a valid point, like I said, I’m biased, it’s a very convenient
airport for me when I need to go to Kalispell. If I absolutley had to go to Kalispell, I suppose I would
use GPI if I were forced to. But when i suck the gear up to shopping or on vacation, airport location
and access is at the top of my priority list and GPI wouldn’t make the cut. I think it’s in a perfect
location to benefit the most people in the area and visitors to the area, it’s very convenient to town.
You REALLY have to need to be in Kalispell to use GPI instead of S27. I live 2 miles from a Class D
airport (what GPI is) under left down wind for the regional jets. I keep my plane 30 miles away at an
airport like S27.
Here’s some folks that will benefit. Did you know that Diamondaire holds the STC for the Apache
Geronimo. This probably doesn’t mean much to you but it’s a very popular conversion for one of the
most popular twin engine planes in existence. There’s a local entrepreneur who’s developing a
revolutionary new aircraft in the area (called the Synergy, look it up, very cool) who could use an
airport like S27 to base their business and put Kalispell on the map. I’m sure the local kid, Jason
Curtis, who learned to fly there and is now a member of the Thunderbirds benefited from it. There is
a school on the field that teaches people to fly planes and helicopters, last I looked flying was a
legitimate profession that required airports and training. SAR crews base there, when fires break out
nearby, the fire fighters utilize the airport. Because you don’t use it doesn’t mean nobody does.
By 3Hills on 07-19-12 @ 6:23 pm
Piper, you are contradicting yourself all over the place. First you say you pay “boo coo” bucks into the system to fly, then you admit you pay only a mere pittance. You can’t keep your story straight
to save your soul. You have no credibility, fella.
By Bonnie S on 07-19-12 @ 6:35 pm
What Jeff Zauner knows about business could be fit inside a thimble. What business has Zauner successfully run?
What business has Kari Gabriel successfully run?
What business has Jim Atkinson successfully run?
What business has Randy Kenyon successfully run?
Why would Wayne Saverud, a seemingly successful business man take up with liberal tax and
spenders and abandon everything he knows that would benefit the taxpayer?
The answers are:
None, None, None, None and because he subscribes to tax and spend liberal policies.
These are the geniuses that are writing a $2.2 million dollar check of taxpayer dollars to expand an
under utilized airport that doesn’t need expanding.
Solution: add your name to the referendum and VOTE THEM OUT IN THE NEXT ELECTION
CYCLE!
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 7:01 pm
A mere pittance to the FAA is a boo coo to me. Compared to the $16.5 million the update will cost, my contributions are a mere pittance. But compared to my bank account, they are a boo coo. Nice job
trying to take my words way out of context. My mere pittance remark was in reference to the Kalispell
City Airport in particular, which accounts for maybe 2% of where I spend my aviation dollars
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 7:03 pm
“These are the geniuses that are writing a $2.2 million dollar check of taxpayer dollars to expand an under utilized airport that doesn’t need expanding. ”
Seems rather genius to me, considering they’ll get 3 million back they’ve already spent. Where as
shutting it down would cost 7.5 million. Don’t know em’ can’t attest to their business saavy (a public
airport isn’t a business anyway) but it seems they know how to balance a checkbook.
By piperpilot on 07-19-12 @ 7:08 pm
You guys got anything else other than calling me names, taking my words out of context not even to make a point just to attack me? If the shoe fits, get offensive huh?
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 9:57 pm
Seems to me if the Mayor and you guys crowing about a loss of 3 lots of tax revenue should ask the Mayor to get her employer to kick in some money for property tax and schools.
By 5YearLapelTac on 07-19-12 @ 10:13 pm
LogicalOne (and I use the term loosely),Do you mean the employer that pays over $1 Million Dollars a year in property taxes?
Since the hospital is the largest employer in the Flathead Valley and serves 100,000 people, the
comparison isn’t exactly accurate. You don’t have enough “Logic” to come up with a fair
comparison.
And, it’s not 3 properties…it’s 17.
By LogicalOne on 07-19-12 @ 10:24 pm
Sorry Tammi… must of hit a nerve.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 6:53 am
PiperPilot + IllogicalOne = SHAME!
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 7:00 am
PiperPilot and IllogicalOne put their own self interest above our school children, SHAME!
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 7:34 am
WHich one of the Mayor’s cronies are you RightofCenter?
By 5YearLapelTac on 07-20-12 @ 7:40 am
LO-Nice try, but no cigar. As the Flathead’s largest employer, it so happens my son is a nurse at
KRMC.
You’re not exactly a Rhodes Scholar are you?
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 7:51 am
But since you lost, you are road kill on this issue.
Are you going to keep crying until you pass out?
By DanglingChad on 07-20-12 @ 8:18 am
Careful, Loggy.
I don’t hear anyone crying at all. In fact…what’s that music I hear? Oh yes, that’s the Fat Lady in
the dressing room warming up. She’s not singing yet, but she’s a hummin’.
Have a terrific weekend! I know I will!
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 8:39 am
Weekends are why I live here, Angle of the Dangle…...
How many days are you taking off of your signature quest? Times a waisting!
The fat lady needs to get out of the closet in 50 days or so…...
By JosephineDoody on 07-20-12 @ 8:46 am
Loathical One-And here you accuse poor Maria of “nouning”?
It’s wasting, not waisting.
Contact the Sylvan Learning Center nearest you - they might take students your age.
By piperpilot on 07-20-12 @ 9:11 am
Do I mention Hitler now or later?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 9:17 am
Which one of former disgruntled (big time landslide loser) Former Mayor Pam Kennedy’s cronies are you?
By piperpilot on 07-20-12 @ 9:29 am
I have no idea who Pam Kennedy is, didn’t even know who she was until you started whining about her, wouldn’t know her if she knocked on my door right now. You don’t know me, you’ve never met
me, you’ve never seen me on TV. I have no political agenda, don’t care who the councilmen are,
don’t care who the airport manager is, don’t care who the mayor is, past or present. I’m not aware of
the political past of these people. They can all jump off a bridge for all I care. An 83 year old airport
is all I care about, If the local CAVE people are going to destroy it, I’m going to do whatever I can
to make sure it doesn’t happen on false pretenses. So charge up your hoverrounds, I’ll be around
until the paint dries on the new runway.
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 9:58 am
Doody… I was mocking Steve Davis….. thats how he spells waisting…. he’s your student.Put the dunce hat on him. Are you a Sylvan graduate? You have to be Tammi the way you
are blasting her and the other 5 council members who led in doing the right thing.
By piperpilot on 07-20-12 @ 10:02 am
Doody’s not going to beleave you, they know there’ll be nosier planes at the airport so stop waisting your time.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 10:25 am
No political agenda other than to try to get me and other property owners and tax payers in the City of Kalispell to subsidize your business and recreation at the expense of our children’s education.
SHAME!
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 10:48 am
RIght of Center…. you are pulling that out of your big behind.There are countless ways to blame you stupid kid on other government excesses.
Start with 5013Cs, streetscape, fancy new firehalls and the First National Bank.
It the city enforced the speed limits and red light running on Main and Idaho, it would get
rich.
Pay attention to things that really matter…. in big dollars.
By EnPrime on 07-20-12 @ 11:00 am
Airplanes before education. Yeah, that makes sense.
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 11:11 am
Political banter from another loser in this dog fight.Airplanes need safe airports.
Your children ride on airplanes.
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 11:34 am
Selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish putting your trying to get the tax payers of the City of Kalispell to subsidize your recreation and businesses above the well being of our kids education.
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 11:56 am
You are fool to spread that factoid distortion of doom and gloom…. can we go back to farts cause airplanes to crash…. thats about as credible..
Oh were you not part of that discussion for the last three years? To busy getting elected and
setting up un-holy agendas?
By RIGHTOFCENTER on 07-20-12 @ 12:01 pm
Truth hurts, this little group of selfish, self-serving pilots want us to fund their recreation and business, what a scam. But, the tax payers of Kalispell are too smart to fall for it. This thing will
go down in as big a landslide as former disgruntled Mayor Pam Kennedy went down. In a big ball
of flames.
By LogicalOne on 07-20-12 @ 12:36 pm
Yeah it hurts…. you are the one agonizing.
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.