Thursday Apr. 24, 2014
Comments on:
The State Department has jurisdiction over the $7 billion pipeline
Let’s be civil.
The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), accuse someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail webmaster [at]

The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.

  Newest First
By mooseberryinn on 02-09-13 @ 9:58 am
12 up | 23 down

Define ‘near term”.  does that mean this month? this year? this decade?  oh wait, The announcement
was authorized by the regime.  This means that the announcement means nothing.  sorry.
By fcb on 02-09-13 @ 5:26 pm
11 up | 17 down

Rail accidents occur 34 times more frequently than pipeline ones for every ton of crude or other
hazardous material shipped comparable distances. Warren Buffet’s Oil trains are winning
because of a shortage of pipeline capacity — a problem that has been worsened by
environmental opposition to such projects as TransCanada’s stalled Keystone XL pipeline.

Pipelines can be built to avoid cities, waterways, and wetlands .

Your choice. Warren Buffet prefers the more expensive trains at $10 or more a barrel / 
$1,000,000 per train ?
By mooseberryinn on 02-09-13 @ 8:43 pm
10 up | 15 down

Be aware - this is only partly about oil, the price of gas etc.  it is also about chairman Obama’s
“transformation” of America into a crippled communist country.  I pity the poor guys who need to
load/drive their pick-up trucks for work.  Well, that is what it is about - break the middle class working
folks with higher costs, higher taxes, and tons of regulations.  Sigh….too bad, so sad, told ya so.
By Gabby Johnson on 02-10-13 @ 6:46 am
20 up | 10 down

What it’s about is the GOP’s abandonment of the issue of private property rights of American
farmers and ranchers to allow a foreign corporation to take their land by eminent domain.
By reggie on 02-10-13 @ 9:53 am
21 up | 8 down

Don’t corporations always come before people in GOTP thinking? It is the natural GOTP
progression that “property rights” must defeer to those most able to afford them, even
FOREIGN corporations.
By hotfishmt on 02-10-13 @ 10:21 am
15 up | 10 down

Comrade Moose must know one when he sees one??? 

The pipeline needs to be built, makes jobs, and help the US get more energy independent. The
only black flag I see is, with the so called excess of oil now….is…we exported some 250,000
barrels of oil products to Brazil this last month….exporting oil ?? The money trail should lead to
lower prices & create a business climate of expansion rather than hold your breath & hope
prices don’t cause more layoffs.
By mooseberryinn on 02-10-13 @ 1:34 pm
9 up | 20 down

ah hotfishmt - I see you have a glimmer of understanding.  Now why do you suppose King Obama is
obstructing oil resource (and natural gas btw) industries?  why do you suppose his EPA is piling on
regulations to cripple coal?  As for the world market - the resource will go to where it makes the
most profit.  What do you suppose might help the market in the U.S.?  hmm, get rid of the EPA
anchors?  Get rid of King Obama?  As for understanding Communism - yup, seen it in action, in all
its’ glorious inaction and destruction.  A good reason to get rid of Chairman Obama and his party.
By RussCrowder on 02-11-13 @ 7:53 am
9 up | 16 down

And the winner is…..NOT energy independence! ...Sorry America.
By pik20e4me on 02-11-13 @ 10:03 am
18 up | 7 down

While we bark at Keystone like it is a tree and express our concern for energy independence, it
is worth noting that significant progress is being made.  For example, as of 2011, 18.8% of
electrical energy consumed in Iowa was produced by wind generation.  Several more sites
have come on line since that year in Iowa, increasing that percentage.  My understanding is
that the Keystone project runs rough-shod over individuals’ property rights, which is one of
Russ Crowder’s big issues (is this giving him whiplash?), and it will transport the Canada oil
sands raw product to where it can be refined and easily shipped to the world market.  MBI
makes that point well:  petroleum is fungible and it will go to where it makes the most profit
(basically, it will be sold at world market prices).  That helps us how?

The Canadians would just as soon build the pipeline through their own country, but they
encountered significant resistance.  And anyone who looks at their extraction process will
acknowledge that it is not environmentally advantageous.

Meantime, below the event horizon of us rabble, alternative and renewable energy sources are
starting to come on line and gain cost efficiency.  (As in Iowa and the massive solar energy site
SE of Vegas.) There will not be an overnight transition to such sources and it is obvious that
carbon-based energy sources will surely not be eliminated from the mix in our lifetimes.  And,
with any new technology, there will be ups and downs and it will be messy—we lost a couple of
space shuttles and a few rockets blew up on the launch pads before we got to the moon. 

Energy independence has been a platitude preached at us by politicians for decades.  Whether
or not that is worthy goal, development of alternative sources promises to provide an
increasing percentage of our energy use.  This in itself has a profound effect on prices:  the
reason gas prices at the pump dropped during the Great Recession was the dampening of
demand:  The fundamental supply/demand relationship tells us that shifting demand for
petroleum products by a few percent to alternatives has a disproportionate effect on price.

If you really want energy independence, it is worth our long-term development of new
technology.  I prefer that to letting China do it.
By mooseberryinn on 02-11-13 @ 12:58 pm
4 up | 15 down

um, we were on the moon long before space shuttles, but anyway, your third paragraph does make
some sense.  I believe all of us are for a variety of energy sources to drive down “price at the pump”,
or “price at the electric meter”.  but ya see, King Obama and his henchmen EPA are trashing oil
and natural gas NOW.  Before widespread availability, (& proven technology) are in place.
and….You used the term “Supply and Demand” ??? how utterly “Capitalist” is that?  So, as long as
you brought it up, “Supply and Demand” says if the U.S. has sufficient oil/nat’l gas, the price will go
down (if the regime can avoid the temptation to tax it more), and…. us poor working folks who have
to commute, load up our pick up trucks with tools, lumber, rocks and/or firewood etc. just might see
a drop in gas prices??? remember also - King Obama’s “energy czar” said (his words) gas should
be around $4/gallon (or more).  go ahead, argue, ignore your own use of ‘supply/demand etc. got
lots of time, just not much money any more.
By reggie on 02-11-13 @ 2:49 pm
14 up | 6 down

Tohm Hartmann reported recently that our number one export for 2012 was petroleum and
refined petroleum products. At least, we got to do a little “value added” work to some of that
raw material. Not like our exporting of logs, taconite, cattle, grain, cotton,....etc. so others can
have our old jobs in manufacturing. 

Our unsustainable unemployment, percent liveing under the poverty line, and loss of lifestyle
couldn’t happen until “we” reversed the first thing our first congress passed into law…
protection; to foster national industry for national protection, worker protection and progress.
By pik20e4me on 02-11-13 @ 3:43 pm
19 up | 6 down

I noticed after posting that my phasing regarding the chronology of going to the moon might be
confusing.  I’m pretty tuned in on the sequence:  I was on the flight deck of a 747 over the
Midwest when the first shuttle disaster occurred.  ATC advised us of the tragedy.  I apologize
for my imprecision.

I’d like to save a discussion of supply and demand, energy prices, and capitalism for some
other thread.  Capitalism has been wonderful for us.  That does not mean that unfettered
capitalism is good for us.  I’ll leave it to your comment and others that petroleum products are
fungible—no matter how much we extract, it will all be sold at world market prices.

Maybe I’m getting off the correspondent’s original topic, but I’d like to address your comment
regarding the EPA:

I do not know the practice in your home, but in my house we prefer not to defecate in our own
mess kits.  If you wish to extrapolate that thought to the rest of the country or the world, you will
find that many people prefer regulations and constraints on the extractive industries.

I recall when the extreme smog in LA was as bad as it is now in China.  The EPA pushed the
automotive industry with stiff regulations to change (also they included the smokestack
businesses).  I ridiculed that at the time.  Guess what?  GM invented the catalytic convertor
and the industry came up with other technologies.  Now, you’d be hard-pressed to commit
suicide by sucking on an exhaust pipe and you can actually breathe the air in California if you
ever wanted to go there.  Vehicles are significantly more efficient now as a side benefit.  I
believe it was Volvo that claimed of one of their vehicles that the exhaust was actually cleaner
than the air coming in the intake. 

Energy production is not entitled to a pass on regulation.  As an example, the EPA is working
on regulation of air pollutants from production, storage and transportation of oil and gas. Does
that bother you? All that becomes is an engineering problem—understand that engineers live
for problems to solve.

I respond better to “President Obama and his appointees” than I do to “King Obama and his
henchmen.” It is President Obama, just as it was President Bush before him.  Using such terms
diminishes both you and your arguments.  As do the two smears you have tried to make
against me since I have posted here, including one that could be construed to have sexual
connotations.  Drop the troll stuff and come to the party—while our world views may differ, you
have good to contribute.  On the other hand, if your work on your Masters’ thesis requires you
to stay in role, I understand perfectly.
By mooseberryinn on 02-11-13 @ 10:27 pm
6 up | 18 down

As I’ve mentioned previously, I have no argument with developing more efficient energy sources, but
let’s not have the American working people bare the burden of dictatorial regulations before their
time.  Coal is a good example in Montana.  Why do you suppose “President” Obama’s energy Czar
publicly announced he was in favor of $4/gal gas (in 2009), and surprise!  Here we are.  it wouldn’t
be that “President” Obama has delayed permitting oil exploration on public lands?  Delaying action
on the Keystone pipeline?  why is it do you suppose that every “green energy” project the
“president” pushed onto the taxpayers went bankrupt?  Where are the ex-CEOs etc./  How is it,
“president” Obama seems to be driving gov’t spending and gov’t growth not just into ‘record”
territory, but well into “epic or even legendary” levels while economists warn of collapse?  Well,
except for Pelosi, she says there is no spending problem it’s just a budget deficit.  that just cracks
me up.  Why hasn’t the “president” submitted a budget in four years? Oh wait, he did and it was so
bizarre not even any democrats would approve of it.  then, there are his exec orders, I really like the
illegal immigrant thing when he announced his ICE folks were not going to enforce the law.  whoops
- do ya think that is not an impeachable offense?  Ya see, the thing is, with this “president” there
seems to be a never-ending twisting of the exec. branch’s authority under the constitution.  then, he
says” he will not raise taxes on the middle class because that would harm the economy in
October/November 2012, now he’s saying there must be tax increases!  Part of the problem here is
that this “president” thinks no one out here will remember what he said a few months ago, so he
simply says what ever he thinks will be well received.  He blamed Bush for everything for His own
four years in office!  I mean, get real!  Sorry, got on a roll.  Energy - each gallon of gas is taxed 18
cents?  wouldn’t it seem reasonable that maybe the gov’t might sponsor a program to “reward”
technological advancements in the energy field?  and - I am not saying “pay off previous supporters”
(Solindra) with bizarrely handled taxpayer money as loans.  Anyway - the list of “president” obama’s
unusual and decidedly Communistic methods lends suspicion to his desire for “transformation”.  Ya
know, he’s never really said what this “transformation’ might include.
By reggie on 02-12-13 @ 7:34 am
17 up | 5 down

Moose, FYI, our government funds research and pilot programs for energy
development/improvement on a regular basis and has done so for many years. For instance,
billions of dollars were provided over a period of 13 years before technology was developed to
tap natural gas trapped in porous rock formations. This is not a comment for or against
hydrofracking, just statement of ongoing policy in one area. Both parties do it, and most
taxpayers probably support these efforts, dispite the fact that a portion of this funding will not
succeed in improved energy production, or will require years of support before achieving
favorable results.

The Chinese government subsidises their renewable energy industry with much more money
than we do for ours. This is probably the biggest reason our renewable energy industry cannot
compete. But still, unsustainable U.S. trade policy stops industrial development in the U.S.
By reggie on 02-12-13 @ 7:58 am
8 up | 5 down

That is 33 years, sorry.
By pik20e4me on 02-12-13 @ 12:34 pm
15 up | 7 down


This was posted under the wrong thread.  You have my apology

I and others certainly appreciate your progress.  Your faculty advisor told me that he is going to
give half credit for “president” Obama, rather than the proper title: President Obama.  It is clear
that you have no admiration for our current president, but remember the admonition in the
military:  You salute the Colonel even though you think he is a swine.

I picked up a copy of Trolling for Dummies yesterday.  I know you don’t use that in your
master’s program, but I’m trying to come up to speed. The second chapter is “Chumming.”  On
page 23 it explains that the best way to chum is to first express outrage at whatever the current
president is doing.  The next step is to shotgun.  Anything between three and five specific
irritations is considered to be a rant.  Any above five is considered to be a tirade.  The third
suggestion is to never tie your outrage to any solutions.

The book goes on to say that if you do all of the above, you are virtually always guaranteed to
get a rise.

In your post of yesterday, I quit counting after identifying seven different complaints without
factual support and without proposing solutions other than the all-encompassing “impeach
Obama.” I am beginning to see how it works.  I’m looking forward to reading the other chapters.
By mooseberryinn on 02-12-13 @ 2:31 pm
7 up | 18 down

I do not make the effort, nor waste the time in posting links for the recent history we’ve all endured. 
You boys either know it or you don’t, you pay attention, or you don’t Besides, for the most part it is
very clear you haven’t the talent for analytically processing this regime’s actions, or our good King’s
propaganda methods.  I’m quite sure that even as the prices and taxes rise, the quality and
availability of health care falls, you both will sing the praises of Chairman Obama and the Demo-
dummies regime.  Well, too bad, so sad, told ya so.  Y’all don’t have kids do ya?  well if so, how
unfortunate for them.
By pik20e4me on 02-12-13 @ 3:39 pm
19 up | 8 down

Who else here missed the official announcement that MBI was awarded the magic decoder
By GATE on 02-12-13 @ 3:44 pm
8 up | 18 down

Moose: Sadly, Death, Taxes and some form of Progressive Socialism will always be with us. At least
Death never gets any worse!
By mooseberryinn on 02-13-13 @ 7:16 am
7 up | 13 down

pik - you probably believed the Anointed One’s ‘state of the Union speech?  heh, heh, heh.
By pik20e4me on 02-13-13 @ 9:40 am
15 up | 7 down

I did find the Elected One’s SOTU had far more substance than Rubio’s rebuttal.  How was the
Tea Party rebuttal?
By mooseberryinn on 02-13-13 @ 10:26 pm
6 up | 13 down

yes, the Lying, Pot-head, Communist King had “substance” .  Note - ‘fact check” wasn’t positively
impressed with chairman Obama’s “facts”.  Well, no surprise from King Obama.  He wants more taxes,
and wants to spend more money.  The usual.
By pik20e4me on 02-14-13 @ 9:16 am
11 up | 5 down

And other than that, how was the Tea Party rebuttal?
By GATE on 02-14-13 @ 12:50 pm
5 up | 9 down

The Failure-In-Chief’s Valentine’s Fairness Act: 1. Guarantee a Valentine for every American. 2.
Valentine Infrastructure Stimulus to speed Valentine delivery 3.Valentine investment trust for non-fat
Chocolate research and development 4. Tax brakes for environmentally friendly Valentine jobs created
in the US….and it won’t ad a dime to the Deficit!
By reggie on 02-15-13 @ 11:26 am
5 up | 3 down

So now republicans get two bites of the apple? A formal party response, and a response from
the lunitic fringe. Wonder why liberals don’t get any airtime in this arena. After all, we hear
constant propaganda from the right that the U.S. is flooded with LIBERAL MEDIA.

Just more false claims to influence the media to move even farther to the conservative side
and ignore liberal, evidence based thinking. U.S. media are just as liberal as the multinational
corporations that own them.
By Mark W. on 02-15-13 @ 11:52 am
4 up | 4 down

So what progressive position isn’t the American people familiar with? 

The wealthy aren’t taxed enough?  We know this.
The corporations destroy the earth?  We know this.
The unions created everything good about America?  We know this.
The whiteys keep everyone else down?  We know this.
Republicans bad, Democrats good?  We know this.

Your problem is not that everyone doesn’t know what they’re supposed to think.  Your problem is
they just don’t want to think it.  What are you going to do with the stubborn American people?
By reggie on 02-16-13 @ 11:41 am
3 up | 2 down

Mark, the answers to your question are much to long for a comment board….Briefly, a few (to
end the recession)-1. end corporate giveaways and offshore tax shelters 2. return to a
progressive tax code, tax capital gains and dividends as income and reestablish a progressive
tax on unearned inhereted wealth of more than $3 million. 3. reestablish a modest financial
transaction tax. 4. medicare for all would save hundreds of dollars annually and free busuness
from that overhead cost. 5. reduce out of control military spending by 50% and use that
revenue to invest in the productive economy. Infrastructure projects create 40% more jobs per
dollar than spending on military, healthcare creates 70% more jobs and education creates
240% more jobs.

My point is that the American people are grossly misinformed by corporate media, not
stubborn. The answer is better access to truthfull information on a scale similar to our current
misinformation campaign propaganda disquised as media.

A more fair distribution of the wealth labor creates must be restored for even democraticly
controled government to survive.
By Mark W. on 02-16-13 @ 2:01 pm
1 up | 0 down

“A more fair distribution of the wealth labor creates must be restored for even democraticly
controled government to survive.”

I believe a high moral standard of conduct is a better indicator of a culture’s ability to maintain
sound government than wealth distribution.  And the corporate media is certainly not my friend in
this regard.  But ultimately I’m sure our goal is the same: a happy, healthy, comfortable populace.
Kellyn Brown
Kellyn Brown15h
Governor Weighs in on Barry Beach Clemency Application | Flathead Beacon
Dillon Tabish
Dillon Tabish18h
Grappling with Technology Demands, Kalispell Schools Seek Funding Boost
Molly Priddy
Molly Priddy16h
MT Gov. Steve Bullock sends letter to Parole Board, largely supportive of Barry Beach's petition for commutation of sentence. #mtpol
Tristan Scott
Tristan Scott20h
Meet the law firm behind W.R. Grace and scores of other notable Montana cases.
Flathead Beacon
FB Headlines15h
Governor Weighs in on Barry Beach Clemency Application