Comments on: Montana Loading Another Shot for States’ Rights
By starving student on 02-22-09
It will be interesting to see if the Federal courts will side with Montana on this one. The Feds can regulate any activities that affect interstate commerce. I’m sure that’s what they’ll argue. With new, cooperative federalism becoming increasingly more popular, I’m excited to see what happens.
By funguymon on 02-22-09
Nice!
By noob on 02-23-09
“It will be interesting to see if the Federal courts will side with Montana on this one. The Feds can regulate any activities that affect interstate commerce.”
Hint, they won’t. The feds aren’t interested in ‘regulating interstate commerce’...their objective is to rule the people. Montana issuing a challenge to that rule and encouraging it’s people to think of themselves as ‘self governed’ is going to provoke a serious shot across the bow from Washington. Eric Holder is already crafting his battle plan. Watch.
By JB on 02-23-09
You’re right, noob, this legislation will certainly force Washington’s hand to take action. If by some miracle this is made into law, there will most certainly be a standoff with regard to states rights.
By Tim on 02-23-09
If the Fed. gov. (judicial, executive and legislative) criticize the states rights and sovereignty declaration here, and force Montanans to feed at the hands of federal mandates, I encourage Montanans to secede from the union, as there is an increasing movement for such an act. States retained the right to self-govern under the 9th and 10th amendment of the US Constitution! If Montana stepped up to the plate on this issue, undoubtedly citizens from around the US would support Montana in various ways.
By Don on 02-23-09
When the Legislature passes this law Brian Schweitzer will have to sign it into law if he has any political aspirations in MT.
By starving student on 02-23-09
Noob- I think your right. The federal Court probably won’t side with Montana. Unfortunately, our government is a Leviathan. Intruding on the personal liberties of everyone, in every state. How do we stop this?? The States should have more power than the feds, and local government should be the authority that governs us. It upsets me that this is the predicament that we are in! What happend to checks and balances?! How did we allow ourselves to get into this mess??! Since I’m just starting to learn about all of this in school, I blame my parents generation. When I’m a governor, senator, or whatever, I’m going to change things! Thats right- LESS government!! Well, I’m still interested to see how things will unfold.
By Tim on 02-23-09
“Starving Student,” to your questions on “how did we allow ourselves to get into this mess?”: we have ignored the “laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” and have presumed to possess more wisdom than the Creator of the natural laws, which formed this nation. The degradation of our nation’s principle have been long at work—even before your parent’s generation. As Founding Father, George Mason’s daughter said, tyranny has been attempted in a gradual sink.
The only way to achieve “less government” is to insist that our State legislators and governors to put an end to the tyranny, and if the Fed does not, SECEDE!! It is our natural right to do just as our founders did: to break the ties that bind us.
Be on the look out for an upcoming book later this year, “Freedom For A Change!”
By As If on 02-23-09
Tim, I hardly think the United States government would allow Montana to just up and secede.The process of greed and corruption that big government and big business have gotten away with may start coming into check with a new generation of leaders. I hope so, anyway. Meanwhile I’m raising two kids to be good, ethical people who pay attention, think, and care. If that would become popular there could be some kind of moral revolution. As it is we’re on our way to a Civil War, I fear. I think I want the illegal immigrants on my side, there is strength in numbers. Hope they learn English by then.
I’ll be watching for the book. The title has a nice ring to it.
By Tim on 02-24-09
to “As If,” I understand your sentiment, but I believe that secession is the only hope. Your “hope” concerning a “moral revolution” I believe it too far gone. Even Pat Buchanan regarded to this fact in his book “The Death of the West.” I would take it a step further and say that focusing on a “countercultural” revolution would be wasting out resources.
I do not know if you have noticed, but the states in the union are finally standing up to this federal corruption by passing “sovereignty” legislation—including in your state—Montana. I believe that if one state seceded, many others would as well. Furthermore, you have to consider that these times and conditions are much different than they were during the Civil War (the War between the States). The Federal government has to feed, clothe and take care of millions, including illegal aliens (which I do not care to have their support—they know and care nothing of our culture and history and freedom—they are leaches and will continue to be so. if they really cared about freedom, they would become LEGAL citizens).
We can’t tell the future, but we can read history, and if you read about American history, the founders cared little about “chances of winning” and more of “duty to God, nation and family.” We will never win without the same commitment.
I encourage Montanans to equip their minds and hearts for more independence and urge your State legislature and governor to do the same.
By noob on 02-24-09
Secession doesn’t necessarily mean issuing a proclamation of independence and withdrawing from everything that the US is.
As we have lost our freedoms (especially the freedom of self-governance at the state level, which is a central theme of the US Constitution) incrementally, so we will regain them.
Like Tim says, ‘more independence’. The battles over medical marijuana and ‘made in Montana’ firearms are an EXCELLENT place to start and make me really proud of the legislature.
They’re definitely on the right track and for the right reasons. Write your congressman in support today.
By But, Tim on 02-24-09
We’ll need the illegals to help fight the battles, maybe we could give them citizenship in exchange for blood and then confine them to a reservation called California. It’s a win-win-win proposition. They’ll fight harder for it than most Americans will and you know it.
By JB on 02-25-09
We all know that the US Constitution means nothing to Washington, it’s still “just a piece of paper” to them, but for Montana to declare independent sovereignty would be a huge mistake. The reality of that decision would be too horrible to even contemplate. We really need to shine as an example for state’s rights to the rest of the country, and the bills currently in process are a very good start. Other states, like Alabama for example, are doing exactly the same thing right now. Hopefully, in time, this will start a chain of events by other states leading to real federal reform.
By Tim on 02-25-09
Re: “JB”, Founding Father James Wilson said that resistance to tyranny should be implemented in proportion to the acts of tyranny itself. Our Founders seceded from the “union” of Great Britain (even though the results were “detrimental” to the colonies); yet, the did it because they would rather suffer the consequences of separation and live as freeman, than to maintain the status-quo and live as slaves. “Shining as a beacon” undoubtedly will prove helpful as a motivating factor for the other states to follow, but the acts of resistance must prove effective to prohibit all attempts of the Fed. gov. to continue its death grip of tyranny around our necks.
Freedom comes with eternal vigilance and tyranny comes with idle and debauched persons. Maintaining citizenship in the Union for the union’s sake is not rational and produces no freedom. It is time that We the People educate ourselves as to what really makes people free.
By JB on 02-25-09
Tim, I don’t suggest Montana remaining a state for the sake of the US, I make a painful truth plain: if we attempt to declare ourselves sovereign, the repercussions that would follow would be nothing short of cataclysmic. Washington can’t afford for any of its states to declare soverignty…including Montana, and so, I sincerely believe that the Fed is capable of any action that would keep it from occuring.
By JB on 02-25-09
Besides, the govenor wants to make sure Montana gets its “slice” of stimulus pork…
By Tim on 02-25-09
Re: “JB,” your comments are well-taken, but I believe that there is a lot of forces at work right now, to the point that secession by one state will have a domino affect. In such a case, the Fed. gov. would not be able to subdue such attempts. The end result would be a re-bargaining of the terms of federalism. If you consider that the US has most of its troops scattered all around the world, it does not want to have to start a war on its own states.
By JB on 02-26-09
Tim, certainly a “re-bargaining” would be a step in the right direction, as you put it, but there are no guarantees that it would happen. My concern is that an annexation of the states that attempt to declare sovereignty would be the most likely result, turning them into a federal district with no states rights whatsoever.
By Tim on 02-26-09
JB, certainly there are no guarantees; there is only duty and faith. The scenario of “annexing” of the states is certainly a possibility IF the states do nothing to reclaim freedom. A line will be crossed whereby the state leaders willingly choose to be “voluntary slaves” or freemen. Continuing to work within a corrupt system will undoubtedly prove fruitless for freedom-lovers. I think that those of us who claim to love freedom can forget about the union (Fed. gov.): it is too far gone and too controlled by the globalists, elitists, etc. Thus, the only alternative of having force behind our freedom is through the states, which is what the anti-federalist and federalist writers all said. The formula for victory has already been calculated: we just have to apply to our facts today.
By noob on 02-26-09
“I think that those of us who claim to love freedom can forget about the union (Fed. gov.): it is too far gone and too controlled by the globalists, elitists, etc. “
Not to mention that the population/voter density just isn’t there.
Most people fit into one of 2 categories: they either want a reduction of individual liberty so that they can more easily control others or they want a reduction of individual liberty so that they can more easily be controlled (ie: less responsible, provided for, taken care of)
‘Freedom lovers’ are the tiny minority.
Nationally, we’ll never have a concentration of numbers to effect any real change (see Ron Paul election results).
Locally, however, we can pool together and effect change in our communities, counties and ultimately states.
I’m excited to join this effort in Montana and look forward to meeting others there.
By Tim on 02-26-09
Noob, I think your analysis may be correct, but at the same time, I believe there are many who would join a Freedom movement if one existed—even though the Ron Paul results are telling.
Montana is one of the few states that may have success in this area of state sovereignty/secession. You’d be surprised how many people who join the effort there if Montana led the way. I, for one, would join it, and would be glad to help you there in your state.
By yabbit on 02-26-09
Yeah but people would only join in if A) it doesn’t cost anything
B) it wouldn’t take any time out of their busy lives
C) it was approved by their church
Yeah it’s a great idea and a noble cause and it could work but it’s gonna end up being just a few people giving their lives to it. However:
Things are going to have to get really bad before it gets the majority of people off their asses. We are nowhere near that yet. I remember that the rising death toll in Vietnam started pissing people off. Then some notable people started throwing their own money and time at it (John Lennon for instance) and things got rolling to the point that Nixon had to do something about it. Like shoot some college students for protesting. That got noticed.
The chinese kid who got himself run over by the tank got noticed.
Okay, any volunteers? Wanna get noticed?
By Tim on 02-26-09
yabbit, this is true, but America’s Founding generation and the Confederates in the 1860’s did it. Grant it: we do not have the character that they did then. So, we have a lot of work to do to enlighten the minds of Montanans and in the other states of like mind. I still think we are in different times than ever before in America and that there is still a chance of freedom in particular states. Make Montana one of them!!!
By yabbit on 02-26-09
Yeah but people would only join in if A) it doesn’t cost anything
B) it wouldn’t take any time out of their busy lives
C) it was approved by their church
Yeah it’s a great idea and a noble cause and it could work but it’s gonna end up being just a few people giving their lives to it. However:
Things are going to have to get really bad before it gets the majority of people off their asses. We are nowhere near that yet. For instance I remember that the rising death toll in Vietnam started pissing people off. Then some notable people started throwing their own money and time at it (John Lennon was one) and things got rolling to the point that Nixon had to do something about it. Like shoot some college students for protesting. That got noticed. Eventually he had to honor his campaign promise to end the war in his second term.
The chinese kid who got himself run over by the tank got noticed.
Okay, any volunteers? Wanna get noticed?
By JB on 02-26-09
Tim, you make excellent points. Thanks for your commentary, I found it very enlightening and it did cause me to rethink my position and do more research and reading on the subject of states rights and sovereignty. You are dead on right about our nation’s government; they have gone past the point of control by the people, and the people need to take their rights back. It is high time for a revolution, to take back what once was ours.
By Tim on 02-26-09
JB, thank you for your comments. I have been enlightened by many of our ancestor’s writings on the subject. You will find a book coming out at the end of this called, “Freedom For a Change,” which addresses these issues. Look for it around late summer or early fall.
I believe that for so long We the People have wasted our resources and time on people and politicians who don’t give a damn about Freedom or our concerns or our posterity. They are selling our freedom at our cost and for their benefit.
It is time that we divert the energy to source that will be able to defeat these minions. Remember, the States formed them, and they can “alter, amend or abolish” them. Let us use our efforts for that purpose.
By Farmer on 03-01-09
Yoou know, I have been reading all the comments and have only one suggestion that could solve our problems. What Montana needs to do is to secede from the Union and then surrender the next day and then live on foreign aide. Other countries do it to the US all the time. Why couldn’t we? Just a thought of the moment.
By Tim on 03-01-09
RE: “Farmer,” one of the reasons for our slavish condition is that the States have received funds from the Fed. gov, along with their mandates and regulation, giving up State sovereignty in those matters rightfully ours under Amendment 9 and 10 in the US Constitution.
We need a Declaration of Independence, not Dependence! Without independence, there is no freedom. I will take no part of secession in a State who would simply turn around and give up sovereignty. What are you risking your life for at that point? You might as well stay in the same condition we are in now.
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.