Comments on: No Such Thing as a ‘Freeride’?
By Pashta on 08-10-11
Why would anyone be against a trail? Something wrong with kids getting out and getting exercise? Jeesh…. Isn’t it OUR land too?
By funpow on 08-10-11
The coverage and reporting on this story is a bit lopsided. It would be more informative to Beacon readers if the article went more into the reasoning behind why these new trails are being created in the first place. There are currently no legal freeride areas on national or state forest within Montana. Until a legitimate area is established, riders are going to continue to take matters into their own hands. Places like Crane Mountain and Spencer Mountain are already being used and enjoyed by thousands of people within the mountain biking community. Judging by how slowly the goal posts are moving toward making things legal, it is going to be a long long while before illegal trail building and riding ends. There is a huge need in this valley for a sanctioned trail system for freeride mountain bikers.
By jimbo on 08-10-11
Both sides are full of crap. Cron knows the most he can get fined is $300, shrugs it off and keeps building trails. Hammer is FOS too, as Cron is right, Hammer needs crap to happen in the woods to keep his money flowing.
This whole thing is setting a very bad example. The bad part about all this is, dirtbikers, horsemen, other mtn bikers, hikers, hunters are all watching this thinking about where they can go build trails in their favorite places. If $300 is all the fine is? Then why not. The FS has little or no law enforcement.
Nobody is against a trail bud, but networks and miles of trails all over is crap, and that is what Cron has going up there.
BS funpow, why shouldn’t the mtn bikers have to go about this the legal way, like everyone else. Cause it takes too long? Very lame argument. Welcome to the real world.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-10-11
Our children sit around the house playing their X-Box’s and complaining that there’s nothing fun to do. Well here is something fun to do! And it’s free! And it’s healthy! And it’s on public land! AND IT’S TIME TO DO IT FOR OUR KIDS! Please, if you care about getting our kids off the couch and back in the woods, please send an email to Rich Kehr and Andrew Johnson of the Flathead National Forest and let them know your views. Their email addresses are…
rkehr@fs.fed.us
andrewjohnson@fs.fed.us
Thank You!
(The trouble maker) Ron Cron
Crane Mountain Trails Supporters
261-6161
By jimbo on 08-10-11
So what happens when you all get bored of riding there. Where is the next spot you are going to scar up? You think your poo don’t stink cause you are non-motorized. Bull, you guys scar up the place just as bad as any dirt bike.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-10-11
@ Jimbo,
The area we are asking for is less than 2 square miles. The trails would be in a confined area for mountain bikes.
$300.00 is not all that the fine could be. A man in Livingston was fined over $10,000.00 for a 1/4 mile trail that was constructed for 4-wheelers.
You don’t know me or the issues but I still respect your opinion. You can always contact me and get a straight answer or contact the Forest Service.
After trying for over 7 years to do this legally I became frustrated and took matters into my own hands. I take full responsibility for my actions! I feel in my heart that this is the right thing to do, and I will continue to do what-ever is required to bring these trails to Crane Mountain.
What have you been doing to make this world a little better place?
Thank You for your time.
By Pashta on 08-10-11
I emailed both, Ron Cron, thanks for the info. I support the trails. 
By Keith Hammer on 08-11-11
If we want to get kids off the couch, let’s get them out hiking or put them on an affordable bike they can actually pedal uphill or down the road to school - not a $5,000 downhill-only bike.
And let’s set a good example for them by not breaking the law and by practicing “leave no trace.” We shouldn’t be leaving jumps and ramps out in the woods any more than pop bottles and litter.
Motorcycles are already using some of the unauthorized bicycle trails above Ferndale. How will Crane Mountain Trail Supporters feel when “their trails” get cut open wider by the 4-wheeler folks, who also have a network of illegal trails in the same area?
Crane Mountain already has problems providing adequate wildlife security, which is partly why the Forest Service has been chilly in its reception of Ron Cron’s proposed trail network. Breaking the law to get one’s own way only makes matters worse.
By Pashta on 08-11-11
Your “argument” makes no sense. How do you know what kind of bikes these kids ride? Are you up there? Why not take the stick out of your butt? Man, people out here in Montana just don’t have anything better to do than to ##### about *anything*.... SAD.
By Keith Hammer on 08-11-11
Not all mountain bikers, including myself and other members of Swan View Coalition, are keen on having downhill-only bikes seeing how fast they can go downhill, with little regard for wildlife and others on the trails.
The heavy, downhill-only bikes are what Crane Mountain Trail Supporters raffled off for their fund-raiser and it’s what they ride in the majority of the videos they have posted on the Internet.
To see some of them, go to our web site at www.swanview.org, click on our Crane Mountain story, and look at some of the links at the end of the story.
If the objective is to have our kids get some exercise, let’s have them hike or pedal uphill as well as coast downhill - and at speeds that allow them to see bears and other wildlife before it results in a bad surprise encounter.
The “get kids off the couch” ploy being used by Crane Mountain Trail Supporters is a smokescreen to allow breakneck bikers to bully the woods on their highly specialized, expensive bikes few kids and families can afford. We say better to buy 10 kids nice $500 mountain bikes than one kid a $5,000 bike he can’t pedal uphill very far.
By Keith Hammer on 08-11-11
Here are the links from our web site to videos showing downhill-only bikes, high speeds and risky stunts being featured by Crane Mountain Trail Supporters:
On videos posted at http://montanabikerman.pinkbike.com/channel/Crane-Mountain-Trails.
In showing “Pedal Driven” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ggRsKMrh6o&feature=related.
In its promotional video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-IcXgCS0s.
By endangered species on 08-11-11
So many things to think about here…You say, get the kids off the couch, but promote these trails as moderate to expert, with a couple of nice falls by grown adults resulting in a broken bike. All well and good for a grown adult, but maybe not my kids. Illegally developed specialized trails on national land. If someone built a trail across the back of your land to make it easier to get to wal-mart would you like it? What if that trail was used by suv’s to get to wal-mart?
You also promote the use of these self described “illegal trails” with raffles and such to get the money to further develope them and or legalize them. Cart before the horse kinda thing to me and spin doctoring at best mr. montana biker-man, to get a result you want and thats all, what happens if you get your way?
Its all legal and you ride like hell, re-work the mountain side for better access and so on, its the new best place to ride bikes in the U.S. or whatever you may dream of.
Somewhere down that line it will get to a place that even you see as too far. I don’t know where that is, maybe it’s when there’s as many asphalt pathways up and down Crane Mt. as there are trees, so everyone, and i mean everyone, can use it as well as just the bikers.
To be fair, Keith Hammers side of the matter is as self serving, and that styled idealogy would leave public lands as they were .... without a public.
And for Pashta… we people out here in Montana complain as much as anywhere else i’ve been, and mostly, we complain about those that move here, because they visit and love it, and begin to change it into what they moved away from in the first place, and it happens everywhere.
What do you have that’s better to do?.. with three comments on this board.
By bobrmr on 08-11-11
Keith Hammer, you are so out of touch in regards to mtn biking. Nowhere has anyone said that you need a $5,000 bike to ride the proposed Crane Mtn Trails or any other freeride trails for that matter.I mtn bike more than anyone else I know, 5 days a week, 75+ miles a week. I do it for fun, I do it for fitness, I do it for the pure enjoyment of being outside in the Last Great Place. I peddle up just as much if not more than I ride down. I do not own a bike anywhere near $5,000; $500 is a lot closer. That being said, if the Crane Mtn Trails were to actually come to fruition and supported by the Forest Service, you bet I’d be there riding those freeride trails. Fun doesn’t even begin to describe it. It is the closest thing to snow skiing I’ve found. And no one is saying you can’t peddle up and also get to ride down! You can have designated trails for up and for down, keeping everyone safe and having fun.
Yes, the bikes that were raffled off were expensive, freeride oriented bikes but it was a FUND RAISER! The point is to raise money. If there were two raffles, one with 300x $500 bikes or one auction with 3x $5,000 bikes, I know where my tickets would be going. The money being raised was to fund a NEPA evaluation that the Forest Service is requiring as a next step in the Crane Mtn Trails proposal.
I might not have gone about it the same way Ron has but in the end, he is just trying to create a designated, safe place where people who like to bike can do so and I applaud him for that and support his efforts 100%.
15-20 years ago, skate parks were not allowed anywhere. It was a dangerous sport where kids were hurt and caused trouble. But take a look around; every community in the country has a skate park these days; including your own.
Why not give this area a chance? If it doesn’t work and people don’t use it, then it can be reclaimed.
By whimsy on 08-11-11
Excuse me, building bike trails on game trails? Crane mountain is apparently populated by native wildlife. Hikers cause enough disruption. And now want to introduce simple machines?
By getman on 08-11-11
The east shore area is a quiet, agricultural and recreational area of great importance along Flathead Lake. Our cherry growers have been there for years and cultivate a very good aspect of hospitality and lifestyle for our valley. The crops contribute to the valley in many ways. There is a movement and excitement to celebrate this agriculture area with the trends for good healthy foods and the , “know your farmer”, concepts. Whether or not the young men our able to do this is not just about the worth of mountain biking. It also will greatly impact neighbors, traffic and the scope of the area. There should be a clear relationship with orchard growers. The impact of traffic, noise, etc. has got to be examined. The values of farmers who are working in the area, on properties they own, has got to be considered. In this situation, a young man has come over the top of everyone else and set out his goals. I don’t think it has even entered his mind to think of his hardworking neighbors. The impact on growers and residents along the east shore has got to be considered. This cannot happen without public meetings and impact statements that are honest. Do you really want to see this beautiful area evolve in this direction? What will it mean in observable impact? I think cherry growers deserve to know.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-11-11
The proposed trails are not on the east shore. They are on the east side of Crane Mountain. I talked with many of the people that live along the road to the trails and they are more concerned with the shooting going on around their property. This area is in need of rehabilitation and placing human activity in it will discourage the illegal activity. Nothing is going to happen without public input. I suggest that everyone become informed of what has actually been proposed and then when the public comment period comes give your educated input.There are many areas in the United States that have mountain bike trails like Oakridge Oregon that have seen the benefits of a system of trails. Also I am not a young man. My children are all grown and having kids of their own. This isn’t, and has never been about me. This is about identifying a need and working to fill that need. The forest belongs to us all to enjoy. We are proposing this trail system so that there is a legitimate place for mountain biking and there isn’t trails being built all over the forest without consent. We have been working with the Forest Service and will continue to clear and improve trails for all users. The next time your out hiking and find that the trail has been cleared, contact the Forest Service and ask who cleared it. Most likely it was either a mountain biker or someone on a motorbike, we do this without credit but we still do it.
Thanks to everyone for their comments. We respect everyone’s opinion, if that opinion comes from facts not ignorance.
By endangered species on 08-11-11
There isn’t a black/white answer to the question when people like Mr. Hammer feel they need to fight for every foot of the forests because people like Mr. Cron , tired of the burecratic BS in trying to go about it legally, went ahead and built trails knowing it wasn’t right.Saying that you don’t need a $5000 bike is fine, maybe not, but the video i watched showed a fella taking a spill and bending a wheel, so i can imagine that if you don’t have the right equipment, you will probably be hiking down anyway.
Supporting the end justifes the means as bobrmr seems to , doesn’t fit here unless you are really interested in the outcome, saying you bike 5 days a week, of course you support it…do you have the same view on other topics as well? I can think of many instances where the end did indeed justified the means, and as many that didn’t. If Mr. Hammer likes to hike 5 days a week, doesn’t his viewpoint have as much merit?
Honestly there should be places so everyone can do their thing, bike trails,hiking area’s, skate parks and whether there is eventually a designated freeride trail at Crane mt. or not doesn’t impact me in the least, i haven’t been there in some years, though remember it as a beautiful,scenic area. I would probably never ride a bike there, nor would i hike there.
So if i have a bias, its that Mr. Cron developed this area, or encouraged the development without the proper analysis being done first,and keeping the entrances “obscured” smacks of a knowingly unlawful act, possibly leading to a judgement of character as well, i don’t know him personally, i imagine he’s as nice a guy as the next, and he wants these 2 square miles for bike trails, no matter what. So if for 7 years i asked Mr. Cron to sell me his truck and he said no,... and i eventually just took his truck when he wasn’t looking, he could rationalize that same act as his with forest service lands. To say that you had to break the law to eventually make it legal doesn’t fly here.
What other shortcuts might take place so this might become designated. What other legal issues might come out of it, will we have to eventually pay taxes for whatever maintence will be required? What about saftey/medical issues..will there be a need for a landing pad for life alert in case someone gets critically injured?. Maybe there was another way to go about it that included people that had more answers than was given before the decision was made to just build trails and see what comes. maybe there’s a better place that could support those activities, such as the ski runs and adjacent lands. All of these questions and more may be answered by Mr. Cron, i don’t know, but if i’d have been diligently seeking to designate this area for special uses for as long as he says than i’d imagine he does, based on facts, not opinion, or ignorance, albeit for the ignorance of those pesky laws eh?
By AmonAmarth on 08-11-11
So many stupid things about this argument I’m not really sure what to comment about.
Whats wrong with letting the trails be built in that area? Has anyone considered that if the trails get approved it may keep people happily riding in a legal area instead of building miles and miles of trails elsewhere? Would really lessen the overall impact wouldn’t it?
I only paid 450 bucks for my bike and I’d be interested in riding the Crane Mountain trails.
Hammer is flapping his gums about expensive bikes and out of control downhill bikers like they are all over the mountain range like the plague. Go hike in some of the other thousands of square miles of forest and let the MTN bikers have a couple of them.
Hammer is showing his true lack of knowledge on the subject. I have a buddy with a $150 dollar wal-mart bike that rides the wheels off the thing all over trails like that…...who cares what a bike costs? It is insignificant.
I don’t agree with Mr. Cron’s decision to start the trails illegally…..but as a long time forest user as a hiker, biker, motorcycle rider, and ATV rider I can certainly understand his frustration.
By Keith Hammer on 08-11-11
The argument that legalizing illegal trails will stop more illegal trails from being built is bogus.
First, it rewards and encourages the illegal behavior.
Second, it’s akin to extortion - like breaking someone’s house window with a baseball bat, then telling them if they pay you to fix that window you won’t break more windows.
If you don’t think an expensive bike is needed, see the comments below the Crane Mountain Special video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-IcXgCS0s. The kid that wrecked his regular bike wheel in the video went out and bought a dowhill/freeride bike.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-11-11
In that video we stated that the run-outs needed to be worked to make them safe. We were demonstrating that point, and the point that we haven’t done that, and won’t without authorization. His down-hill bike cost him $550.00. If he would have landed the jump with his wheel straight he would still be riding that bike.Now your accusing me of extortion. It seems all you want to point out is that I broke the law. Yes I did. I paid the fine and have moved on, so has the Forest Service. I don’t see where it’s your job to prosecute me. If you check my criminal record (as I’m sure you have) you see that I have never had so much as a parking ticket in my life. I’ve owned a business for over 20 years and have given of my time and money to many local projects where children are the focus. Anyone that knows me knows what I do is for others and yes I risked my own freedom for what I considered the greater good. I’m sorry you can’t take a step back and re-evaluate your position, but you never have and I doubt you ever will. It’s not in your nature. So continue your personal attacks, I’m from Anaconda. I can take it.
Thank you for your time.
By Keith Hammer on 08-11-11
I didn’t accuse anyone of extortion.
I used a metaphor to debunk the argument being made above by “funpow” and broadly in the downhill bike community that rationalizes/excuses impatience and unauthorized trail building.
It’s also the same argument/excuse we’ve heard from motorized ATV advocates for decades.
By George W. Bush on 08-11-11
Of course you “didn’t accuse anyone of extortion.” You merely stated “(i)t’s akin to extortion.”I’ve never accused you of being an overzealous, under-educated curmudgeon, but you are certainly strike me as being “akin” to one.
By Alan Avery on 08-11-11
I am a local business owner and father. My son’s, ages 10 & 14, and I became avid mountain bike riders in 2010. Although a $5k bike would be enjoyable, ours were rather modest in cost.
Mountain biking has been an exciting, exhilarating & very athletic sport we are all able to share and enjoy together. We need trails to do so. I can understand concerns with the trails and the idea of downhill riding… certainly from those unfamiliar to the sport. For those with concerns, please know, from a responsible adult and dedicated family man… the sport is enjoyed safely by riders of all ages.
Mr. Hammer, the features that you takes issue with, well, they do add greatly to the experience. But in every way, it is obvious the Bear Dance trail has been substantially improved by Mr. Cron. The true environmental impact from his efforts there are clearly positive. I hope you find another place to spend your supporters money… Ron’s plans have a good basis and many many families would benefit from his vision for years to come.
By Bill on 08-12-11
The Flathead is surrounded by million of acres of forest service land. Not long ago that land provided hundreds if not thousands of jobs to the valley both directly and indirectly through logging. The environmental groups through the courts ended that industry. Less jobs, more timber disease, more forest fires. Now they want to tell us no bikes? I think its arrogant!
By Geezer on 08-12-11
The Forest Service should proceed cautiously with any bike trails, because they can mean damage to resources and they can be expensive to maintain. Where I live, bikes have left deep ruts in trails that capture runoff and increase erosion. They have cut across curves and switchbacks, creating wide areas denuded of vegetation. They have created multiple trails on flat ground, again leaving a wide denuded surface. To repair the damage, the land managers had to close, reroute and rebuild several segments of the trails at the taxpayers’ expense. No bike trails should be opened until the impacts and costs have been analyzed.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
Here’s some science to look over on the environmental impact of mountain biking.
http://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/natural-resource-impacts-mountain-biking
http://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/environmental-impacts-mountain-biking-science-review-and-best-practices
A good read.
By Pashta on 08-12-11
@ EndangeredSpecies: Don’t insult me, I live here, have lived here for a while now and we aren’t going anywhere. We have 3 kids growing up here. This area is the only place I have seen where people act so freaking elitist and think they are better than others simply because they’ve been here longer? What kind of psycho mentality is that? Let me tell you buddy, your relatives weren’t native to this area (unless you’re Indian) so stop your flapping mouth.
By Pashta on 08-12-11
As for the rest of you complaining, yes Montana folks are the most trifling people I have ever come across. I figure it’s because there’s nothing else to do here. I mean really, complaining about people mountain biking? Complaining about a TRUCK driving through Montana? WTH?? LMAO… SAD.
By endangered species on 08-12-11
Sorry Pashta, this isn’t about you or me, and if you re-read my comment you’ll notice i didn’t insult anyone, you were “complaining” about people out here in montana complain about anything/everything. I stated a reason why, and that in my experience, people around the U.S. feel the same way in their communities. Your comments like “stick out of your butt” and “quit flapping your mouth” are closer to an insult than anything i’ve said. I too have two grown children, and have lived and worked in this valley all my life, and i do have some native blood in my family, thank you, i’d hope that an derogatory remark about native american’s doesn’t come next.If you feel that everyone here is a freaking elitist then you need to get out more, i dunno, i know alot of outstanding, humble people, that would give you the shirt off their backs. I’ve been helped by complete strangers and have helped complete strangers myself, that were glad for the help on a snowy night.
I believe Mr. Cron, and Mr Hammer, to both be good law abiding men, and both are probably better outgoing community leaders than i would ever be. Both good men with different beliefs, and people sort of lining up behind them as it were.
One uses the laws to try and keep as many places “untouched” as possible and the other, a normally upstanding citizen, who broke the law this once for as many believe, the better, and i’d not deny it might be so. The one has been using the laws well for some time, and upset a broad part of the valley’s people from tightening the restrictions on land uses over a broad spectrum. The other guy just wants to use a small part of the vast forests for recreational activities, that they say will be of a low impact scale, but fed up with the red tape, he built the trail, paid the fine and has moved on. You say this isn’t about you Mr. Cron, and i agree, but your name will forever be linked with whatever becomes of the trails on Crane mnt. and whatever controversy the illegality of your actions brings
I feel that Mr. Hammer’s position on the matter strengthens everytime someone does something illegal involving our lands. The courts and alot of public opinion get behind the guy that can use the law instead of breaking it. The trail is there now, how often can people be kept out after something is already built, Mr. Cron said himself he will continue to do whatever it takes to bring the trails to Crane mnt.
I agree totally that there should be areas to ride bikes, atv’s, 4x4’s and places to hike, and hunt and fish, we can and do have all those things here. That said, it doesn’t mean that because an illegal trail was made it has to be designated as such because Mr. Cron and some others feel its the best place. If the impact study came back and stated that the disruption caused by freeride trails there would be too much, would the bike enthusiasts abide it and find a place more agreeable to all involved?
By endangered species on 08-12-11
@Pashta, i must have missed the complaining about a truck driving through montana…If you can boil this so called arguement down to just mountain biking, then, in my opinion, i would look abit deeper, maybe you have and i just haven’t gotten there yet. And so to diminish a hypocritical feeling….apparently neither of us has anything better to do than comment on these boards.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
If an other suitable area was found then of course we would build it in that area, but to date none have been found. The trail project on the Island unit has a free-ride trail slated to be built but it makes no sense. You will have to drive all the way to the top of the ski hill 19 1/2 miles, and the trail you ride down is only 3 miles long. Where it exits on the road is over 11 miles back down the road to pick the rider back-up. The road is all dirt and if you have been on it, it’s all wash board. I don’t believe this trail will be used much. The top of the proposed trails are only 2 1/2 miles up the Crane Mountain road, and all the trails are at-least 3 miles long.
We have been working with the forest service examining other areas, but as of yet, no other area has had the right attributes.
Nothing is in stone, we are flexible, but that is why I spent so much time finding this area. We thought of as many concerns as we could and tried to find an area with the best chance of success. That’s why we never considered an area like Krause Basin, but if the forest service prefers it there, then we will re-examine our options. I know that area well and there are many old trails and roads that would work great. It would be nice to stop in and have a cup of coffee with a friend that lives at the bottom.
Thanks for all the comments! this shows that it is an issue that will need to be dealt with soon. The publicity is really helping people understand what we are trying to accomplish.
Watch for the next story, coming from the Missoulian, soon!
Keep the comments coming, they are all valid.
Happy Trails!
Ron Cron
Visit us on our facebook page under;
Crane Mountain Trail Supporters
This is a closed group because someone was taking using statements out of context against us. We will allow anyone with “honorable intentions” to view our page, just ask to join.
By endangered species on 08-12-11
Here’s the problem that won’t go away, the trail has been made…and i realize that the fine was paid, and you want to get over that part of the story, but really thats all thats left, right?You say that if there was a suitable sight you would look at it again or abide by whatever the study says, even if it says a trail won’t be permitted. You also say you will do whatever it takes to bring the trails to Crane mnt., being that you have broke the law, what further would you do?
Still the trail is there, maybe not what you wanted, but its there, and even if you decide not to freeride there, would everyone else stop also? Would others maybe build more up there even though it wasn’t legal, or would everyone find another place that all would agree to…. and still i imagine the trail there and probably even more debilated then when you first thought of the idea, unless you and those with you are still there riding and developing an illegal trail. At what cost would it be to really deny access to areas people want to be in?
I clearly have no affiliation with Ron Cron, nor do i agree with Keith Hammers postion on most things. Seriously, you could put them in the same room with a bucket of eggs each and a person in the middle to take the heat.
Cron says “Do it for the kids!” and throws an egg at the guy in the middle, who turns to hammer and says,“he makes a good point”
Hammer says “Leave no trace!” and throws an egg at the guy, who turns to cron and says, “he makes a good point”
Soon the guy in the middle is covered in eggs and all he ever said was, “he makes a good point”
What happens if its all done above board and all the illegalities if it all hadn’t happened, anyone against the proposed legal trails wouldn’t have a leg to stand on other than whatever the NEPA evaluation states. Thats why it has to be solved without just busting trail, and de-legitimizing the entire thing. What if the “anti-biking trail” people all resorted to illegal acts… loosened bike wheel nuts or let the air out of your tires at the store, maybe blocking the trails , wait,.. that would probably be considered obstacles, and part of the experience, right.
I laugh at the thought, believing that whatever “military type anti biking goons” might be out there wouldn’t do things so stupid, and meant only as mirth. Though i haven’t a vested interest here, i find the story in a property rights/land use way, very interesting.
By Keith Hammer on 08-12-11
Here’s what Forest Service’s Andrew Johnson wrote to a Crane Mountain trail supporter on February 12, 2011 about the half-dozen unauthorized bike trails now in place above Ferndale:
“Despite your assertion that the [unauthorized] trails will disappear in a few short years with no harm done, there are user created social trails on this district that have not healed on their own in nearly 50 years.”
That’s why trails are supposed to be planned before they are built - and why there are laws against building them first.
And it’s why the Forest Service needs to close and get the use off those unauthorized trails now, before they become further entrenched both socially and physically.
By Mark W. on 08-12-11
I’m very happy to see Hammer now alienating those who should be his natural allies—people who want to get out into nature. It’s great to see the green Nazis in and out of the Forest Service further marginalizing themselves from community standards. I would not be at all surprised to learn that some of these mountain bikers have some history of protesting log sales, screaming about improper Environmental Impact Statements, and having small shrines to Judge Malloy in their basement apartments.
The tide is turning. Couldn’t be happier. Kudos to the trail builders. Rock on.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
Keith,POST THE WHOLE LETTER AND STOP USING STATEMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT!
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
Keith,
Never mind. Here is the complete letter. It was written in response to my letter to him.
Ron,
Thanks for your note. Remember that we do support your propose of a mountain bike trail system on Crane Mountain, but as we have explained before we cannot authorize the construction of new trails without first complying with the National Environmental Policy Act and second ensuring that the proposed trails will meet our design standards. Those design standards can accommodate freeride trails with careful thought and planning.
Despite your assertion that the trails will disappear in a few short years with no harm done, there are user created social trails on this district that have not healed on their own in nearly 50 years. An example would be some trails in the Krause Basin that were created not to standard for a motorcycle race. The trails were closed after the event and are still very evident on the landscape and have required us to expend what little trails funding we have to mitigate erosion there. The types of steep trails you have proposed on Crane Mountain would likely suffer the same fate if not properly designed and constructed. I can say this from experience has well - I have worked on the design and construction of trails including freeride style mountain bike trails since the early 1990s.
In regard to timing for NEPA or further consideration of your proposal I think Joy has made it quite clear that we do not have the funds to conduct the analysis at this time. If your organization was able to generate the necessary funds, we would of course consider moving the project forward. Our first priority for trails related planning and NEPA work is the joint motorized/non-motorized proposal on the Island Unit. Once we have completed that analysis we could turn to Crane Mountain if funding allowed.
- Andrew
Andrew K. Johnson
Recreation, Wilderness, Lands, Range, Minerals
Swan Lake Ranger District - Flathead National Forest
andrewjohnson@fs.fed.us
406-837-7507 (Office) - 406-260-2956 (Cell)
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
Here is the letter I sent to Andrew to get the response that I did.It was attached to a letter I forwarded to him from Ken Salazar, Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
See you don’t need the Freedom of Information Act to get Information! You just have to ask. All my correspondences with anyone concerning this issue I will gladly share…
We can do something about our youth losing touch with the outdoors. All we are asking for is a chance to show we can be good stewards of our Public Lands if given a chance! 2 square miles that can easily be overseen by your office is what we’re after.If we prove we can’t do this, what harm has been done? If the trails are left alone they will disappear in just a few short years. No harm done. We want to work in cooperation with the Forest Service, not like it’s been done in the past. Let’s do this as part of our promise to our youth. They spend enough time on the couch.
Thank You for your time.
Ron Cron
Crane Mountain Trails Supporters
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-12-11
This is the letter sent to me from Ken Salazar, that was attached to the the letter I sent to Andrew Johnson.
Dear Ron,
I believe that for America to be at its strongest, we need accessible and clean lands and waters, thriving outdoor culture, businesses and agriculture, and healthy, active youth.
Today, however, our nation’s great outdoors are under intense pressure. Many open spaces, working ranches, farmlands and forests are disappearing, waterways are polluted, and a changing climate is threatening our natural systems. At the same time, many Americans – especially young people – are losing touch with the outdoor places, traditions, and quality of life our country has always treasured.
People across the country have embraced the America’s Great Outdoors Initiative, exceeding our expectations by submitting more than 100,000 comments and ideas. As someone who submitted your thoughts, I want to thank you for helping us develop a 21st Century agenda for conservation, recreation and reconnecting people with the outdoors. And last night, President Obama announced the release of the report and asked for your support in making this Initiative a reality.
Watch President Obama’s speech and join with us to learn how you can help make this campaign successful in your community.
The America’s Great Outdoors Initiative recognizes that many of the best ideas come from outside of Washington. Instead of dictating policies, this initiative, turns to communities for local, grassroots recreation and conservation initiatives. Instead of growing bureaucracy, it calls for reworking inefficient policies and making the Federal Government a better partner with states, tribes, and local communities.
Throughout 2011, we will be working to achieve these ambitious goals. But we cannot do this without your support. You already took a crucial step by submitting a comment or idea, which was critical to shaping this report. Now take the most important step in turning this report into a 21st century conservation agenda – sign up to stay engaged with the Initiative and help make this campaign a reality in your community.
This is an ambitious plan, but with your help, I know we will be successful. Thanks to people like you, the America’s Great Outdoors Initiative includes practical, common-sense ideas from the American people on how our natural, cultural, and historic resources can help us be a more competitive, stronger, and healthier nation.
We hope you will join us today.
Respectfully,
Ken
Ken Salazar
Secretary of the U.S. Department of the Interior
By Pashta on 08-14-11
I really see absolutely nothing wrong with using a small part of our public land to let kids ride and have fun, get in touch with nature and stay out of trouble. This debate is ludicrous in my opinion.
@Endangered Species, my husband has probably 1/4 Cherokee blood and I suspect I have some (much less, however). The fact that you would suggest I might say something negative about Native Americans or anything racist really disappoints me.
By Pashta on 08-14-11
@Ron Cron, thanks for posting the letters here, it looks like there is hope.
By endangered species on 08-15-11
@Pashta, your statement directed at me was “Let me tell you buddy, your relatives weren’t native to this area (unless you’re Indian) so stop your flapping mouth.” How could i ever think you might resort to saying something less than appealing about my heritage? I would mention that i again, basically answered a question and somehow whether or not you or i are indian gives us a stronger voice in this peticular matter to you?, i’d still disagree.
More on topic,
There isn’t anything wrong with using public lands for bike trails, and many more activities, this would be my opinion too. But it seems that how it’s done isn’t a factor in alot of people’s minds, and some relish the thought of someone sticking it to the “Keith Hammer’s”, cause they feel wronged in the past.
I have seen alot of places i used to go gated, kelly humped, or reclaimed, places i felt didn’t need such in-accessability, so i realize how polarizing people can be on this kind of subject.
So let our kids use these lands and have fun, as you say, but don’t forget to tell them you broke laws to get it, and make sure to mention that even though you don’t agree with all the laws, you still really need to be good law abiding kids… a good lesson in hypocricy as well i would say.
I regret that the law was broken, because it would have my full support,( though thats not saying much i agree)done the right way. I guess if i felt so strongly on a matter, that i really need to break laws, (and believe me, i know plenty i would break if i felt i had to), i would want to make sure they are very important issues. I realize this is important to Mr. Cron and alot of people, but to me, it would have been much better to beat them at their own game, in the courts, even if it took another 7 years.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-25-11
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/obesity-rates-projected-soar-report/story?id=14381466
GET THEM OFF THE COUCH. I’m trying to do something about this… are you?
By endangered species on 08-26-11
Of course, get them off the couch, run them however many miles to your illegal trail and overworked other trails. Your ploys to use bytes having anything to do with children are so disingenuious its laughable, and any parent that can’t see right through it, probably shouldn’t have had children in the 1st place, tell me again Mr. Cron, why should i believe anything coming from someone who admittingly, and premeditatedly broke the law, oh do it for the children, wow, what a piece of work you are, btw, did you happen to tell the secretary of the interior that you knowingly broke the laws when you asked for government help?Want to do something about obese children? start with showing them things are done without breaking the law, but i bet you smile when you read things like “renegade outlaw mnt. biker ron cron, and freedom riders”....you sir, are a laughable fraud, and i hope you never get your trails legalized, for the children, so they know that you don’t win by taking the easy way and breaking the law.
Whatever upstanding moral thoughts you may have are surely being tested by your inadequate ploys to get what you want, yes, you and your little supporters group want something and seem to plan to use whatever tact it takes huh? What a joke the forest service is to bow down to a bunch of lawless idiots, but our kids are fat…we need our obese children on bikes moving quickly downhill, what is it you say?..oh ya, “we can’t expect our kids to pedal uphill.”
We can’t? why not? why would sitting on a bike pointing down hill make you less obese?. Keep using these little key points to make your argument Mr. Cron, they are amusing to alot of people with the ability to think for themselves, even upon hearing something that sounds so good as “do it for the children”, it all sounds great until you hear the rest of the story.
By Montana Biker-Man on 08-26-11
No one has to believe me. This isn’t about me. All I’ve done is bring to the Forest Service’s attention, the need for this kind of trail. What happens from that point is 100% up to the Forest Service. Every aspect of the planning is covered by the Forest Service. I have no more say on what is going to happen than you. The Forest Service must see the value in what I have presented or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The Forest Service will write the rest of this story. I’m just as insignificant as you.
By endangered species on 08-26-11
If it isn’t about you, then why continue the useless attempts at swaying public opinion.. i mean really, it certianly isn’t about kids as you say, anyone can see through that smoke screen, i’ve tried to stay as optimistic as possible that common sense might somehow light your way, but i guess not.Everyone of those like you that decide to do what you want in the forests or where ever are the problem, as i said i have no affection for locking up the forests and have been fed up for way longer than seven years about it, but i didn’t cut illegal trails into public land, push that aside as you would, its very important.
You are such a doer for the community as you send any advancements in the cause of true change in public lands management, farther back than it was because you haven’t the stomach to do it the right way.
Thank you so much for getting the attention of the forest service,by your illegal acts, and showing the hypocricy in the system that allows them to give you access to the very area you “made such vast improvements to”, thats all an opinion too see, maybe other feel differently, it is public land right?..so you gave everyone the finger and said i’m doing what i want because its mine too. I’ll agree we are both insignificant, probably more than you know, but as far as the forest service having the last word… i thought they worked for us, and if they won’t do the job right, then we need to get people in there that will, the right way… or would you condone breaking the law in that sense too?
By endangered species on 08-26-11
Heres an idea for you, go to the forest service, and give up the proposed trails you want. Take what they would give, like krause basin, where ever, and put your energies into improving that area, show everyone that your word is as good as you say it is. When you do that, and bring a trail into legal use the right way, then maybe crane mnt isn’t an issue anymore.
Every thing i read indicated that the forest service, saying positive things about the trail supporters work, always had concerns about it as well, so whatever value they saw was also a concern that it wasn’t what they would actually want done , right?
As a father, do you say its responsible of you or your group to have knowingly broke the law and then say its for the kids, what kind of message does than send.
Breaking the law for a kid in my eyes is going next door and slapping the guy for beating his child, and going to jail for it, maybe you go over there and take a beating that the kid was getting and the guy goes to jail, or you just call the cops, whatever, plenty of less dramatic ways a person would knowingly break the law, probably not the way you did i would guess, for the children.
I would certainly not want to encrouch on anyone’s opinion’s like some of those commenting above that agree with the need and want trails, but disagree with the way it happened.
I’m not against your vision Mr. Cron, but against alot you attach to it’s basis. If what you say about yourself , and those that support your cause,is true, then show everyone what you can do with what you are given, instead of what was taken.
By Alan Avery on 08-27-11
Endangered Species; Having met Ron in person, ridden trails with him & my children, discussed the vision… seeing the incredible amount of time and energy he has given; My opinion is he is very genuine and far from self-serving in motive.
Yes, he broke the law and turned himself in. I am not going to defend that. But nor does it seem right to continually judge him for it either. Check the remainder of his record… traffic violations, other arrest, anything else. Has anyone posting on this sight NEVER broken the law? If so, wonderful. I would estimate that many or most have broken the law for much lesser reasons.
My family and I enjoy mountain biking very much and I certainly support Ron’s efforts. We are athletic and get a tremendous work out from downhill as well as all-mountain riding. We are not idiots. We are loving, caring, active people that enjoy the outdoors in several forms.
Ron… thank you for your tireless work and thankless efforts.
By endangered species on 08-27-11
Good for you Alan Avery, as i said i’m not trying to encrouch on anyones opinion, not yours or Mr. Crons. Alan, your opinion is bias,as you say you haven’t any problem with Mr. Cron, though you might not agree with his breaking the law, everything else about it you like very much, right? Where have i been bias at all in my opinion’s? Other than the law breaking i too have nothing bad to say about Mr. Cron or anyone else for that matter. I haven’t any need to look up anyones record either, being that most everyone has done something wrong, knowingly or not, and i am no exception. Can you say that how this issue comes to an end shouldn’t have something to do with the law? It was a 300 dollar fine, all is well and the trail is there legal or not, have you ridden it? What have you mentioned to your children about it?..I’m sure you are a fine parent and your children know right from wrong, without having to expain it to them any further, but does that make it right? Should you or I be able to do whatever we want on public lands? As an intelligent human being where do you draw the line on what kind of pandering you would allow? The use of obese children and children at all for this matter seems all to obvious a ploy, what can be bad about getting kids off the couch? nothing, how many parents let their overweight children mnt. bike downhill?..i mean its a saftey issue, and common sense says a person will not use your trails without first getting experience on far less demanding trails then on that 2 miles, right? Did i not say i have no problem with the “vision”, its how you get there, and that it’s not just about your right to a place to ride mnt. bikes.
Its about the change of land management in general, and if one side continues to only break the law to get what they want, then how will the rest of us that want to use public lands ever get to, without breaking the law too. Did you read the missoulian article?...the premeditation to break the law, cut the trail, and knowing that the forest service wouldn’t reclaim it…that doesn’t bother you? everything was deliberate as Mr. Cron said…even the turning himself in ala “Freedom Riders”. Like it or not, that says something not altogether flattering about the whole thing.
I don’t mind the trails being there, i just want it done right to further advancement and change so we all can access public lands without groups ever having the edge because some people can’t help themselves, and in maybe trying to do something good, made the issue worse. How am i judging Mr. Cron?... he stated certain things, himself, i didn’t, and continuing to mention the law .. well thats the whole story to me, and to use children, obese or not as a stepping point in an issue that started with the breaking the law is in very bad taste, in my opinion.
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.