Cap and Trade (in addition to making Al Gore and his buddies very rich) will result - if Obama and Congress agree to give up U.S. sovereignty - in the largest increase in energy costs imaginable. The far left - while not admitting it - think all additional costs are warranted because they believe in the religion of “Global Warming” (changing the name doesn’t fool anyone). Most recent polls indicate that the “average joe and Joan” are starting to have serious reservations. The bottom line: there continues to be a vigorous debate about climate and the impacts from humans - and there is absolutely no consensus in spite of Mr. Gores horror movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40

MB;

Mayhap everyones just a little disillusioned right now with the recent past’s economic model?  We’ve YET to follow THAT money trail, though it’s pretty obvious. Puke.

That said, I’ve got my own reservations on C&T.

A “Cap and Tax” bill based on dubious science at best. Yeah, that’s pure genius.

Thanks for the video link Granny. I also liked the ending with the quote from Churchill by Longfellow.

Thou,too,sail on,O Ship Of State!
Sail on, O Union, strong and great!
Humanity with all its fears,
With all the hopes of future years,
Is hanging breathless on thy fate!

We know what Master laid they keel,
What Workman wrought thy ribs of steel,
Who made each mast, and sail, and rope,
What anvils rang, what hammers beat,
In what a forge and what a heat
Were shaped the anchors of thy hope!

Fear not each sudden sound and shock,
‘Tis of the wave and not the rock;
‘Tis but the flapping of the sail,
And not a rent made by the gale!

In spite of rock and tempest’s roar,
In spite of false lights on the shore,
Sail on, nor fear to breast the sea!
Our hearts, our hopes, our prayers, our tears,
Our faith triumphant o’er our fears,
Are all with thee,—are all with thee!

Yes, Granny thanks -

As someone with reservations about C&T…

If you liked that edited clip, you’ll LOVE this video of the full 95 minute speech.

Sorry, I don’t find him to be a credible voice in the debate…for reasons you may or may not see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0&feature=player_embedded

If you really hope to find accuracy I’d be pretty cautious about those youtube videos, as like a blog, it can be worded any way you choose, or important info left out.  I’ve received several emails referring me to some youtube thing, but when I check out the accuracy I find it’s been edited to show the opposite of what was originally intended.    Or, of course, people just make stuff up,  You can find most any kind of propaganda on there.  Whatever floats your boat.

Prove it mitch.

It is but one view Mitch, there are many views out there ( As I am sure you know !).  This is one finding on my constant search for WTF is going on.  just as with all reporting there is truth, and then there is someones spin ( In each story lies a bit of truth), but all is important when trying to piece things together. I refuse to only believe what is being spoon fed to me, there is always a bigger picture involved. Much like the scene that recently took place in Hardin. Things are always revealed by those who take the time to look that gift horse in the mouth ! 
Billy : Yes, it is a beautiful quote !

prove what mitch?  that you take up space with your meanless posts?

hahaha, billy’s still trying to figure that one out

Off topic I know. But thought this important.  Obama has just declared H1N1 (Swine flu) a National Emergency !

Besides the obvious…

Important How?  Why?

Well I do not think that ” Declaring a National Emergency” is something that is done over spilled milk !!!  I know that it discontinues some federal regulations, I know that it now allows hospitals to set up drive thrus, and tent hospitals to care for sick patients…........  What else ?  Dont know, still trying to look that up !  I did not think that H1N1 was really this out of hand…......  So your questions Vud, only cause, well…. More questions.  How would you answer your how ? and why ?

Oh, Agreed.  I was hoping for another link though.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091024/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_swine_flu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHBjS_bmtE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCBEyMpOzdo

There ya go Vud.  Report from AP, and a couple youtube links with ABC news and FOX news !  <Smile> Dont want to dissapoint ya !

heh-heh.  Touche’.  When it comes to the internet, I rarely get dissappointed.

Thanks!

...and back on topic…with a link of my own (hope it works) :

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/Economics/Technotes/Economics_Tech_Note_MT10.pdf

I know a year ago that Montana was kinda lagging behind on this program as compared to North Dakota.

Nope…Cut and Paste only.  Sorry.

Carbon Sequesterization…is an odd program itself.  But there are farmers and ranchers trying to take advantage of it.

If you don’t want your enrgy costs to increase dramatically I would call or e-maiI Max and Jon NOW.  What a huge mistake and the people of Montana will hold any of our congressional delegation accountable for a YES vote even in 2014 and especially in 2012.  Good Grief Charlie Brown!

An very inconvenient truth (s).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6425269/The-real-climate-change-catastrophe.html

you rightwingers -  aka science deniers - also argued for years and decades after copernius that the earth was the center of the universe…...

that worked out pretty well for you didn’t it!

you all don’t want to talk about those scientists from the bush admin whose own global warming study proved conclusivily thatit WAS OCCURING…

probably why bush covered up the report for 2 years…..

you conservatives have been on the LOSING side of every crisis since the founding of the country -  why would global warming to any different?

also you blew up the world after 9-11 trying to save us from a few bedraggled terrorists in the mountains of afpak but now the world is threatened with climate altering destruction that could mean the end of a climate on earth that can support life for humans and you could care less…

it’s not worth the effort -  it might cost a buck .....blah blah blah


the REAL reason the rightwingnut wackos -  the majority here are IN FAVOR of gloabl warmig is that you see it as a way to deliver the RAPTURE and ARMEGGEDON to the planet in the near term future…...

making you like the cancers that are our environmental and economic systems….screw everything for the short term buck…....and be proud of it!

Woody; your left wing-right wing, concervative-liberal simplicity is missing the real issue. You have been duped, so bla bla bla shut up. Your stupid associations make no sense.

Dusty

You make some good points…But…Come on.

I’m pull’n for ya.

well I just went thru all the blog posts here and it’s actually quite telling that Billy offers nothing to the arguments here but immature insults…..

making him the perfect rightwingnut follower…..

so you deny that then bush admin refused to release the study the BUSH ADMIN conducted - and that even after messing with the numbers the report still had to admit global warming was true…...hence the reason bush didn’t let it become public…....

AND that makes me stupud? 

Come on Billy you’re the one that in all your ragged posts proves yourself to be the idiot…......

making you once again the perfect fact-adverse rightie…..

the demos who follow the dlc have sold out to big business -  as have EVERY SINGLE RIGHTWINGNUT

at least there are still some lefties - such as myself -  that grill the left when they screw up….....you righties NEVER did to the bush crime family -  oh no -  you allowed it to HAPPEN!  and then have the nerve to say you want to follow the Constitution….....even arthur schlessenger(americas preemminent historian) said Bush did more damage to the Constitution than any other president in the HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY! 

Freakin hypocrites with the brain power of a vacuum cleaner!

google it billy -  we’ll wait while you read those sentences one…......word…......at .......a…...time…........

and once again -  the republicans were against all banking laws FDR passed, against social security, against allowing women to vote, against allowing blacks to vote, against desegration, against a womens right to choose, against free trade by allowing monopolies, against child labor laws, against any work place safety for the employee, against basically every environmental law designed to protect the environment…...

if you can’t understand those differences I’d suggest going back to the 3rd grade billy…....and stay in school this time!

Right wingers suck.
Left wingers suck.
Politicians suck.
Money grubbers and their lackies suck.
Radiation and pollution suck.
Mainstream media sucks.
Usery sucks.
There is hope for you Woody.

That’s; Usury sucks. Good wholesome families are what we should stand behind. The bankers are sucking the life out of them.

Woody’s:

“...if you can’t understand those differences…”

——————————————————————————————

I agree with Woody on many points as well.  Though sometimes cringe at the way he says it.  (Yeah:  Pot/Kettle…I know.)

A humorous, but not original, observation:

Democrats are like cats.  Republicans are like cattle.
There are two different ways to lead them where you want them to go.

Republicans are much better at acomplishing their agenda though.

wow pretty intellectual there billy!  impressive!

and a memo to anyone who read “thinkagain"s link to the inconvient truth article from the telegraph…....

It’s ALL BULLS%*T!

http://nsidc.org/quickfacts/iceshelves.html  Here’s one based on SCIENCE showing the ice shelves latest decreases…....

heck I’ll even copy-paste the important section:  “In recent years, ice shelves on the Antarctic Peninsula and along the northern coast of Canada have experienced rapid disintegration.”

and the Polar bear fastcs are also total BS as a short google search will show; 

http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/ask-the-experts/population/

here’s the important part:
“At the most recent meeting of the IUCN Polar Bear Specialist Group (Copenhagen, 2009), scientists reported that of the 19 subpopulations of polar bears, eight are declining, three are stable, one is increasing, and seven have insufficient data on which to base a decision. (The number of declining populations has increased from five at the group’s 2005 meeting.)

Some members of the press take advantage of the complexity by stating that “polar bears are not in trouble—their numbers have doubled since the 1960s.” That’s a disingenuous statement, of course. It is true that polar bear populations rebounded after over-hunting was restricted, but that situation has nothing to do with the threat polar bears now face: the loss of the sea ice habitat essential to their survival. “

so the article from the UK telegraph is total BS…..google it !!

Yeah,  ThinkAgain’s link was basically an pre-release PR piece pushing the author’s up coming book.

The comment section after the article was good reading though.

On topic I know. But thought this important.  It has just declared:  Obama plans big smart grid announcement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE59P3EP20091026

Stay tuned….

Red and Blue:  ... wow.  There’s probably no sense in trying to reason with some folks ... they don’t trust science/data - it’s all some ‘liberal scheme’ ... you’re competing with all those brilliant scientists/commentators on Fox News, and Rush of course ... too many Watts ... just gets the blood pressure going for naught ... sometimes you have to out-live these folks - but certainly do everything to win the elections, make sure our leaders nip all this BS in the bud immediately (remember those Swift Boats ...) and get our kids a good education; God Bless them though and Senator Inhoff too ... we’re all Americans who often care about the same things ... there’s too many forces out there working to divide us with these ‘wedge’ issues ... who has the most to gain/lose over tackling the global warming reality ... ?  Al Gore is just the messenger ...

Trying to argue with woody is like trying to put lipstick on a pig.

That’s because woody is the self proclaimed expert on everything - especially liberal hypocrisy.

He’s the kind of guy that would have you believe that dihydrogen monoxide should be a restricted substance, along with sodium chloride and carbon dioxide…playing the shell game with big words and scientific terms to confuse you, just like every good politician does.

Always be careful not to step in the BS…

JB :

Don’t know about that. I generally understand WHAT he’s saying.

I DO know that a number of times I’ve exchanged comments with the ‘right’ and if I use a word that’s fairly innocuous but they don’t know the meaning, I’ve gotten this response: “..(the offending word)..WHAT ARE YOU…A FRIGGING LIBERAL !!!”

So, it cuts both ways, I guess.

JB -  how original -  I just used the “lipstick on a pig” reference to YOUR beliefs and idiotic postings.

Congrats on once again saying NOTHING of value…...JUST ONCE try mixing in a FACT -  I know it’s painful for you the truth will set your bigoted mind free!

Go ahead rightwingnuts say global warming doesn’t exist….

Everyone should notice though that JB adds NO FACTS to the discourse here…......like mooseberry he adds only insults…....

At least I throw in FACTS with my insults….

I was just pointing out that global warming is accepted as SCIENCE -  that nasty word neo-cons and rightwingnut wackos ( i know redundant)  hate so much

you have been on the losing side of history over and over again -

why should this be any different?

And where’s the threat JB -  feeling off your game today?

What good is a rightwing insult if it isn’t followed thru w/ a threat against those speaking the truth?

I myself am a new progressive - not afraid of cowards on the right that provoke fear thru intimidation and mob attacks…..

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