Comments on: Planning Investigation Fallout
By Firebeam on 02-05-10
Someone recently said that the people have a deficit of trust in government today. Could that distrust lead to over-blown accusations and perceptions??
While I think that it does, I also think that groups like ‘smart growth’ and ‘citizens for a better Flathead’ are equally off-base and extreme.
Perhaps the current economy and lack of growth will allow cooler heads to prevail…especially since I don’t think we will ever return to the economic heyday and drunken credit party of recent years. So rapid growth may not be as big a concern. But it may take a number of years for the extremist’s blood pressure to fall.
By Native on 02-05-10
Firebeam - very well said.
By Buzz on 02-05-10
I agree…very well said Firebeam.
By Buzz on 02-05-10
Too bad about Tammi Fisher though….is she just young and nieve? It’s quite obvious that she is a very intelligent person and could probably go far in a political career. Associating with this group will definitely hold her back and is already leading to a negative impression.. she should follow the lead of others and dis-asscociate from American Dream and Associates as quickly as possible.
By BLUSKY on 02-05-10
Dale Lauman is a RINO. Also, I think it adds to the credibility of those opposing the illegal planning activities that they are non-partisan. Shows they don’t suck up to a party, but that they believe in the constitution and adherance to the law foremost and first of all. I think they just call it like they see it. Cudos to them.
By dsrobins on 02-06-10
The reality is that the right wingers, the property rights folks and the gun goons think they see an opportunity here so they are going full blown to gain whatever influence they can. They don’t care whose character they assassinate, who they harm, nor will they stop short of fabrications and barefaced lies. The Flathead Valley has always had an excess of right wingers, and more moved over here after the feds and the state of Idaho shut down the neo-nazis around Coeur d’Alene. Added to this, we have some very wealthy right wingers who have moved here from California and Florida who like the political atmosphere as well as the nice environment. These folks are dangerous and a threat to what remains of decent and civil society here. Beware of everything and anything they have to say and be especially wary of politicians like Tammi Fisher that they seek to promote.
By kalispelling bee on 02-06-10
By tazmanian on 02-06-10: “It also shows how the far left loony tune kooks operate when they can’t debate the issue at hand. They name call…”
Um…
By mongo on 02-07-10
taz, if you are going to use words like “impune,” please learn how to spell and use the proper word in the proper place. ie: one would “throw” out the race card, just like you would “bomb throw.” THROUGH this type of education, you would not be CATEGORIZED as someone with little understanding of basic grammer and proper spelling who uses his word-of-the-day calendar to impress his fellow bloggers. There is more to life in a civilized society than guns and money.
By mongo on 02-07-10
and it’s IMPUGN. Even I had to look up the proper spelling on that one. geez.
By DanglingChad on 02-07-10
Mongo and DS~
Obviously, You two don’t know Tammi Fisher very well. Ever bother to have a conversation with the woman? 2/3 of the Kalispell voters disagree with you and are confident in her abilities. They can’t all be wrong.
By riverrunner on 02-07-10
I doubt the root of the complaints comes solely from ADM. The negative reaction to this planning office has a whole lot more traction than one group can muster. The thing is the more people are convinced there is a problem the more a solution will need to be found. There are lefties, righties and people in the middle all over this valley who are disgusted with the planning department. The planning office’s methods, behavior and personal attacks have been over the line. This problem will not go away until the divisive people in the planning office are removed. There proabably are other county people who have done some CYA work on their behalf. Reprimands in a closed personnel file is one method they use. As the commentary points out one way to change it is to vote in a clean slate. Nothing wrong with that. That’s how our system works.
By Sawyer on 02-07-10
Taz, You are something else. I would rather have Bin Laden involved in our county government than you. Unforunately we have you, and more just like you.
By DanglingChad on 02-07-10
Sawyer - What a reckless statement! Do you even realize what you’ve said? Bin Laden? Really Sawyer? Really?
With statements such as that, you are the one to be feared.
By inthemiddle on 02-07-10
Taz, you are right about my spelling and grammer, they are both at best passable. Thank God for spell check. Growing up in a single parent family ( father died) in the 1960’s, education was a secondary concern. They say life experience forms the person that you become. I think that this is why I am so supportive of both social safety nets and a strong public education system. I think when a person grows up in a wealthy or upper income family they have a hard time understanding how hard it can be. They seem to think that since they have been successful anyone should be. I have worked hard, but also have been very lucky, and because of this I have been successful. And sometimes people just need a little help. Now you can call me a left wing looney.
By 2ifbysea on 02-07-10
Sawyer;
Why don’t go ahead and tell the families of the victims of 9/11 that you’d rather have Bin Laden involved in our government. Let me know how that works out for you.
By debbietant on 02-08-10
Laugh while you can truthorcon, even the worthless Republicans on the county commission now realize that Joe Brenneman and Jeff Harris has been right all along. We don’t have to make anything up about property owners in this county or the stranglehold Crowder has over all the political candidates. It is there for all to see! Even the county attorney has recognized Crowder and property owners for the loons they are. So laugh it up. Your going to find out how much power you have when the good people in the “COMMUNITY” are through with you.
P.S. Do you think the property owners were laughing when the oppressed people in China were freed from their grip?
By overandback on 02-08-10
Be careful, Truthorcon. Your ultra-right wing paranoia is showing. You are no more believable than extremists on the other side. You should at least pretend to be for planning like the other Harris critics so that you have credibility. Here’s hoping that the non-extremists in this county get their voice heard over the din that ADM and Russ Crowder have orchestrated in order to drown out any other view. Let’s all not forget that Crowder’s end game and that of his supporters is to place ultra-right wing loyals in every public office, get rid of Harris in favor of a planning director that is a rubber stamper, and (watch for it this November) a ballot item to get rid of the growth policy altogether, thus canceling all neighborhood plans. The organizer of this succesful effort in Ravalli county has already been to Flathead county to consult with and advise him.
By Native on 02-08-10
Taz - I don’t think you grasped the point KalispellBee was making earlier. You complain about name-calling & catagorizing people and sandwhich that in between calling people loons & kooks.
I’m not really on top of this issue but I can say that after reading ADM’s website, you cannot deny that they are more partisan based than anything. Its even in the 2nd sentence of their main page that they are against the political left. In my mind, it ruins all credibility when you want to take an ISSUE and justify your position by an AFFILIATION.
Going back the gun thing. I am not anti-gun but Taz please don’t try to go back to what our Founding Fathers intended. Our founders had friggin muskets. When Aaron Burr dueled with Alexander Hamilton, nobody expected anyone to die. It was extremely rare that those old clunky pistols would actually fire true enough to hit somebody. A duel was more a show of courage and honor. Again, I’m not anti-gun but I don’t think our founding fathers wrote the constitution in anticipation of mentally unstable people being able to buy fully-automatic weapons at a gun show.
BTW: I am the worst speller in here so I don’t judge.
By Native on 02-08-10
Very well put, I appreciate your comments also. I agree that when you feel strongly it is very hard to have restraint
I think the Flathead is extremely divided, shockingly so. I don’t get it to tell you the truth. And people don’t leave their politics and religeon at home like other places. I can’t believe how many emails I get from business associates I don’t know very well that bash political groups on both sides. Fuel to the fire.
By debbietant on 02-09-10
Why don’t taz and Native “get a room.” While you two are getting all mushy, the reality is that the radical property owners like Crowder, Fisher and their property rights kooks at American Dream Montana want to destroy planning in Flathead County!! Until everyone realizes that property owners and property rights are the enemy here, Harris is going to continue to have his hands tied by Crowders BOUGHT & PAID FOR local politicians.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
As someone stated earlier, if I were going to “buy” a candidate, I’m pretty sure it would cost me more than $160.00 (the maximum amount allowed per individual by Montana law).
Debbie, just where do you think this country would be without the taxpayer? In case you’re not aware of who pays taxes in this land - that would be the property owner. For the good of people everwhere…GET A GRIP or GET OUT! If you’re that unhappy, set up residency somewhere else; like France or Afghanistan.
By mongo on 02-09-10
wow, now we’re going to beat up FRANCE?? have you even been there 2ifbysea???
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Mongrel:
Yes. Good coffee, good pastry, snooty people. France treated our troops like garbage during the war. Don’t tell me you don’t remember.
By dsrobins on 02-09-10
No doubt 2ifbysea rode all the way through France in General George Patton’s jeep and only ate C rations all the way.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Be careful, DS. Perhaps you should reserve your comments on that matter for our Veterans. Get back to me on how that turns out for you.
By debbietant on 02-09-10
It seems like shallow thinkers can get going on any subject.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Yes Debbie, please include yourself in that statement.
By dsrobins on 02-09-10
2ifbysea,
BTW, I am a veteran. Company Commander, 4th Inf Div, Nha Trang, Pleiku and central highlands, Viet Nam, 1966-67. So feel free to tell us all about your glorious service record.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
DS:Uh-huh. I’d say the burden of proof is on you, not me. Perhaps you should start by answering Truth’s question. Which side were you on?
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
truthorcon: that was an unconscionable attack on a Nam War veteran. You should be ashamed of yourself. Apologize.
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
same for you, 2ifbysea.
By dsrobins on 02-09-10
Lol. My suggestion that 2ifbysea worked. If he and truthorcon don’t know that the 4th Infantry Division is one of the oldest U.S. Army divisions, it proves neither of them ever served a day in uniform. The 4th was first fought in France during WWI, participated in the Normandy landings during WWII, fought again in Korea and Viet Nam and has deployed several times to Iraq. I had the honor to deploy with it from Fort Lewis, WA in September 1966. The four leaf clover shoulder patch I wore in Nam still hangs proudly on the wall in my library.
By inthemiddle on 02-09-10
ds, Thank you for your service to our country.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Gee, DS, you must also be clairvoyant claiming to know whether or not I wore a uniform. Not that I owe you or Kalispell Native an explanation, I served in the Army Air Corps from 1944 to 1946. I took basic training in Des Moines, Iowa, then on to Marianna, Florida, then Gunnery School and finally Shaw AFB in South Carolina. I worked in the motor pool and was the chief driver for the base CO. I’ve been a member of the American Legion for 57 years. If they’d take 85 year olds, I would sign up again today.
Kalispell Native, I believe it is you who and DS who owe the apology.
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
So you’ve never served in a combat role? Is that right, 2ifbysea? Well, okay, such are the fortunes of war. Some folks getting cushy jobs in the back echelon. I’ll still salute your service, but not apologize for confronting you about your impertinent behavior. Rank, nor age, have that many privileges.
USAF 76-82, Combat Crew Wings, 5 Air Medals. Just FYI.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
KN:DS accused me of never serving a day in uniform, which is untrue. Are you now putting me down because I am a woman, or because I never had a combat role, or both? It is you sir who is guilty of impertinent behavior.
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
Ahhhh, the gender card that I would have no way of knowing about. Classic.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Ahhhhh, deflection. I expected as much. Classic.
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
Actually, why would a woman be sent to Gunnery school if she would not serve in batte in WWII? Secondly, why did you use Army Air Corps instead of Women’s Air Corps?
By overandback on 02-09-10
Oh my G*d. Have you guys finished your peeing contest? Is this what the property rights and planning debate is all about bottom line???? Go find a basketball court and settle it.
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
Because that’s what it was called, United States Army Aircorps. Before I enlisted it was called the WAAF. Marianna Florida was a Gunnery School Camo Base where I worked in the motor pool. The A26’s were also there (they’re not called A26’s today).
By 2ifbysea on 02-09-10
O&B:I’m going to defend myself when I’ve been falsely accused. I really don’t need your blessing. Thanks, though.
By Kalispell Native on 02-09-10
While I see a refernce to A-26s in this wikipedia item,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianna_Municipal_Airport
I see nothing about a gunnery aspect to that site. Just looking for a bit of clarity.
By kalispelling bee on 02-09-10
overandback, I think they should have a dance-off.
By eibba on 02-09-10
Mr. Harris is a miserable leader and Mr. Harris should be the planning investigation fallout.
By overandback on 02-09-10
eibba - While you’re condemning Directon Harris as a poor leader, consider how devastingly poor a leader is one who seeks to divide a community and disenfranchise everyone who is not a political loyal to him. And then take a look at your own leader. Fills the bill? You bet! Russ Crowder and ADM should be the the investigation fallout, as they are toxic to this county.
By dsrobins on 02-10-10
2ifbysea:
Well, good for you if you actually did serve, but your story seems doubtful. When time permits Google the following: remf.
It’s not an Army term, the Marines invented this one. And even then, if you really did wear a uniform for a while, good on you as the Aussies say.
By mongo on 02-10-10
2ifbysea:being 85 years of age, I would expect you to move on. Luckily, the French don’t despise America because of slavery and our abominable treatment of Native Americans and the Japanese. And I say this from years of firsthand experience. Back to the topic at hand…
By 2ifbysea on 02-10-10
DS and Mongrel:Shame on the both of you. At 85 I’m sharper than most my age and remember my service with clarity, thank you. I don’t need you two condescending whipper snappers questioning my service.
I’ve moved on quite nicely Mongrel. I remember my time in the Army Air Corps with fondness. If you’d like to see a picture of me in my dress uniform (and it was a dress) I’m glad to show it to you. The two of you need to garner a little respect for your elders. Didn’t your mother teach you anything?
By mongo on 02-10-10
2ifbysea, I did not question your service or recollection thereof at any point. The question of respect is mutual. My screenname is MONGO. Please keep in mind that the term “mongrel” is perjorative and outdated, no matter to whom or what you are referring. If anyone is being condescending, my bet is on you.
By overandback on 02-10-10
2ifbysea - No, you don’t need my or anyone else’s permission to defend yourself. And if I offended you, I am sorry. You have my gratitude and deepest respect for your service to this country.
By dsrobins on 02-10-10
One does have to admire 2ifbysea at least a bit. If she served wearing a skirt, good for her. Assuming she really is 85, we have to admire her spunk, feistiness and memory. Most of us won’t make it as far as she has. Hang in there, old girl, and check back with us when you pass 90 if we’re still here. By that time the military will be allowing cross dressers in so the guys can also wear skirts. It’ll be very confusing.
By 2ifbysea on 02-11-10
Mongrel:I am showing you as much respect as you have shown me. Anytime you and DS would like to see my picture in uniform, just let me know. I will also be happy to show you a copy of my discharge papers. At least O&B had the decency to offer an apology, which I accept with gratitude.
By mongo on 02-11-10
2ifby…as stated, I never questioned your service, but suggested you move on from despising an entire country due to people you came into contact with 60 years ago. I’m interested in why you expect an apology. Simply because you say you are 85 years old? Move on, no apology here. Call me whatever you want, your use of the term mongrel offends society in general. Much more so that me not apologizing to an imaginary 85 year old. Woof.
By 2ifbysea on 02-11-10
Imaginary 85 year old? It is you who is the work of fiction. You’re rude, childish, condescending, and have no respect for your elders. At least DS is of good humor and bears no malice. The same cannot be said of you. You are the one who strikes me as an angry and embittered person. Seek help.
By Web Master on 02-11-10
Please keep your posts on topic and refrain from personal attacks. Thanks.
By the jamhole on 02-11-10
Hahahaha, its so awesome to me that the web master of this site has to come on here, and probably send emails to you people, telling you all to stop being jerks to eachother. The funny thing is, some of you people actually contribute to real life society. I think we should find out who you all really are, and post your flathead beacon user names on your businesses. You know, just to make you think twice.
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.