So, I’m supposed to accept a Daily Kos poll as unbiased? Did anyone else noticed how the questions were phrased? Perhaps we should check some other sources - like a real polling company? A suggested question - Do you want your Federal Government to spend one trillion dollars to Nationalize Health Care including coverage for illegals?

First, the poll was conducted by Research 2000, a polling company that is not affiliated with DailyKos except as a hired contractor.  Just like any organization can hire the polling company of their choosing.

Second, illegals are not covered in the Health Care Reform legislation.  That canard has been disproven multiple times, just like the death panels malarkey.  Heh. Just this weekend Sen. Grassley admitted the death panel assertion was bogus.

The poll is VERY misleading and useless, except as a propaganda device.  Here’s why:

==There is NO definition of what the PO is and is not.  The devil is always in the details, and there are NO details yet to discuss much less to opine about.

== The PO is spun as merely another option as if it were just another choice.  HOWEVER, pages 16-19 paint quite another picture with people forced to chose it if they have no current insurance or if they lose their current coverage.  Requiring all insurers to participate in an insurance exchange where T’s & C’s are mandated and controlled is also a non-competitive concern. 

This poll is nothing more than a “push” poll designed to illicit a certain response so that Kos et al. can have a propaganda tool.

Craig:  If “there are no details yet to discuss”, then why are you using citing pages 16-19 (aka details) to support your position?  Ya know, since there are no details, and certainly no final legislation package?

You can’t have it both ways.

And there is nothing resembling a push-poll in the construct of the questions. N O T H I N G.

Those pages discuss structure limiting choice, but they do not provide substantive content of what the heck the PO is.

When the poll relied on emotion rather than substantive content, yes it was a push poll.

You have a very odd definition of emotion, then.

A push poll question would be something along these lines:  “If you knew Baucus was in favor of allowing old people to die so younger people could live, would you be in favor of health care reform?”  See the difference?

Your assertion is baseless and ill-informed.

The emotion is everywhere and fanned by all the spin doctors.  The question relies on it and makes NO attempt to define what a PO is and what it means.

How do you think those same people would have answered this:  “If the PO causes you to lose your current coverage, would you be in favor of it?”

Typical response from a Faux News listener.  Broad assertions with no specificity.  By your response you admit that there is no emotion contained in the Research 2000 questions.  They are, in fact, as middle-of-the-road and milque toast as a poll question can get.

So instead, you pivot to the broader public behavior and emotions exhibited in the townhalls and other forums that we see on the TV.  That conflation fails.

And then to try to solidify your point you close with a hypothetical question that was not asked in the poll.  Nice try at using distraction.

You lose.

KN, I thought we were have a real conversation.  Now you go and spoil it by making it not about the issues, but personal.  I gave you specifics.  You choose to ignore them to shift the debate.

You’ve given me nothing but empty bloviation.

And nice try, with that Rovian tactic, accusing someone of possessing your own deficiencies.

This is the section of the Health Bill that has raised eyebrows, in regards to illegal aliens…

Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
17 Health Care Coverage

‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—

then further down you read this….

‘‘(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a)
2 shall not apply to any individual who is a non-
resident alien


We all know that illegal aliens get health care coverage now, and we know they will get it when the new Health Bill becomes law. The thing is, if they don’t have coverage they will be exempt from the 2.5% tax that legal citizens will be required to pay, if they (legals) were with out coverage.

Is there anyone who really believes that the Dems won’t try to include illegals for coverage? (vs. medical treatment when they show up in the ER). Per Obama: “Basic Standard Of Decency” Allows Illegals To Be Treated. How about the “decency” of not violating our laws and entering illegally? How about enforcing our laws and deporting those who violate them? (what does Mexico do concerning it’s southern border? How about Canada? The rest of the world? Why do we have to be different?).

I hope we all get included in a public health care plan, ok, forget the profiteers. They can be left out.

It’s simple logic - if you keep the number of licensed doctors practicing medicine in check (as the AMA does) then the price of medical care will naturally increase - its more about stifling competition to them over protecting patients.

ThinkAgain,

If I recall correctly it was a Republican President and Congress that shoved the No Child Left Behind Act down our throats. It was also a Republican President backed by powerful Republican Senators and House leaders that tried to force amnesty upon us…


Democrats and Republicans are opposite wings of the same bird of prey devouring the carcass of what use to be America. The America that they collectively destroyed.

1. The “No Child Left Behind Act”, with it’s flaws, has improved test scores. What Arnie Duncan is now doing is to push the “accountability” envelope further. It’s simple. Either students are learning or they’re not. And our results vs. the world are dismal. 2. Many more Dems than GOPers supported the amnesty BS. And it was the people, like now with Obamacare, that defeated it.

Support the 10th Amendment Movement

ThinkAgain,

Democrats and Republicans are opposite wings of the same bird of prey devouring the carcass of what use to be America. The America that they collectively destroyed.

Oh please, spare us the drama.

Now here’s drama done “right”...


http://gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1094&type=6

(Notice who endorsed it at the bottom.)

It can’t be any worse then what is happening now. So what health care plan do you have, that you like so well?

Hitler enacted policy if a person wasn’t productive, or stood in an inferior group such as:  retard, gimp, Jew, homosexual, gypsy, etc. you got no soup.  Now Obama is promoting the same plan with a few cosmetic changes, yet, review of the accounting shows his “plan” is unsustainable.  There has to be a drastic cut to the military industrial complex..and that’s just not going to happen.  There has to be a huge return to manufacturing/farming productivity..and that isn’t addressed.  Conclusion, the administration marches forward with plan for Americas’ destruction.  Prepare for slums with enclaves of wealthy guarded by Xe in gated communities.  Look at Rio de Janeiro to see how the USA will look.

Isn’t the real issue about what you pay for health care?  Having government provide an entitlement at taxpayer expense will cost a lot more than just money.

Learn the facts:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/wm2114.cfm

Ha!

Here’s what I envision after healthcare reform:

Going to an—.gov website and looking at a series of plans.

ONE of which will be called something like Public Healthcare Option, for this plan I expect to pay…oh, who knows maybe $125 - $225 per month.
 
l’ll then decide which plan I’ll choose…or stick with what I have.
Nothing sinister.

Now contrast this with CS’ statement:

“Hitler enacted policy if a person wasn’t productive, or stood in an inferior group such as:  retard, gimp, Jew, homosexual, gypsy, etc. you got no “...Conclusion, the administration marches forward with plan for Americas’ destruction…”

America is’nt as weak as you’d have us beleive.

cold steel, I quote Representative Barney Frank of New York, “What planet do you spend most your time on?”

You sound a lot like John Stokes and his goofiness.

You are right, one of the issues is how much health care costs.

We pay more then just taxes, so we should look at more then just taxes.  I, for one, pay health insurance premiums, the doctor bills, the profits the insurance companies make, besides my taxes.

I think it is prudent that we look at the whole picture. 

If the issues is about Government control, let me assure you the insurance companies have us by the throat.

a:  I make the same payments as you do…but I would rather have a choice than no choice at all.  Is the treatment you pay for good?  If not, you can go to another doctor, right?  Even get a second opinion or go to the specialist of your choice?

Nobody’s holding you to the wall and forcing money out of your pocket for health care - that is all by your choice.  If the government takes control, you will get what they pay for - whether its good or bad - and you will NOT have a choice.

I have a pre-existing condition. I wanted to leave my job so I went looking for other coverage and found that people like me are black listed by all health insurance companies. I am trapped in this job. My choice is this job and the coverage I have or a chance to do something different without health insurance. Not much of a choice.

Dear “a”.  Are you aware of what the Massachusetts Senate just passed?  The “Pandemic Response Bill”.  Read it and tell me what planet the people in the Senate of Massachusetts are on.

““The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money [to spend].”“-Margaret Thatcher

“The problem with Roark is that eventually he runs out of other people’s aphorisms to quote.”

Get back to us when you start having some original thoughts of your own, please.

Kalispell Native, as usual your resort to personal attacks. And, as usual, you are unable to argue against reason. Instead of attacking me, why don’t you try and disprove or argue against the statement I posted?

Capitalists should never be allowed near a health care system. They hold sick children hostage as they force parents to bankrupt themselves in the desperate scramble to pay for medical care. The sick do not have a choice. Medical care is not a consumable good. We can choose to buy a used car or a new car, shop at a boutique or a thrift store, but there is no choice between illness and health. And any debate about health care must acknowledge that the for-profit health care industry is the problem and must be destroyed. This is an industry that hires doctors and analysts to deny care to patients in order to increase profits. It is an industry that causes half of all bankruptcies. And the 20,000 Americans who died last year because they did not receive adequate care condemn these corporations as complicit in murder.

People against a public option make me sick and ashamed to be an American. Amercians are such a stupid group of humans.