According to the Institute on Medicine (IOM) about 18,000 people in the US die each year because they lack proper medical insurance.

We spend TWICE AS MUCH per capita on medical care than competing industrialized nations.

But rank near the bottom among industrialized countries for outcomes such as lifespan and other health indicators.

The leading cause of bankruptcy in America is health care bills from people who HAVE INSURANCE!

Yes- let’s reform the health care system in a smart and effective way.

Simply saying NO without engaging constructively in the debate for reform is a ticket to disaster.

Status Quo Health Care costs are bankrupting America.

I wholeheartedly agree - the status quo is not a viable option.  I’m afraid, however, that this legislation will be another “HMO act” fiasco.

You know, there are a lot of factors surrounding life expectancy in industrialized societies - medical care is but a single factor, and not necessarily the defining one.  Level of industrialization, public health, diet, war, availability of life’s necessities, and disease are all major factors as well.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past our government to make deep fat fryers and grills illegal.

Back to Health Care. I pay $8400 a year for a healthy family of four. That gives us a $10000 deductible from Blue Cross Blue Shield. HEALTH INSURANCE SUCKS!!!! We need to eliminate the private profiteers and have the government take over like they do with our roads.

@a - what makes you think government run health care will be any better?  Single payer health care systems don’t work - that has been proven time and again!  Your healthy family of four won’t get the kind of health care they have come to expect.  You MIGHT save some money - and I emphasize MIGHT - but the quality will not be anywhere near what you have come to expect from an HMO/PPO.

As for putting government into the equation -who do you think paves our roads? Private contractor companies - like Knife River - bid on the contracts that government sets up.

Granted, our current system is not the best one.  That is because government is involved - and has been since the 70s.  Government needs to be taken out of the equation - and HMOs dissolved - so that health care is once again affordable.

I think the government, one payer will work because it does works for our highway system. The private contractor doing the people’s highways through the Government is working.
Can you imagine the highway system if the private profiteers were writing those contacts? 

I see other countries with one payer have much better results for their citizen then our twice as expensive system.

Right now I am paying all my own medical bills and my premiums. What I have is asset protection. I stand a chance of keeping my house if I get hurt, but until I spend $10000 I get no help for the medical bills.

I pay my taxes which pays for a lot of other people to get health care. Which I don’t begrudge. What I do begrudge is the CEO of Blue Cross Cross Shield of Montana (just one of fifty states) making $4 million a year.

My kids are in college and I pay a one time fee to the University health center. I love it. I know my kids have a place to go if they need it, they catch problems early and it is very affordable.

Tell me, what do you have for health care insurance? You seem to be ok with it.

Don’t bother arguing FACTS with the likes of JB and his uneducated minions/apologists for big business’s right to PROFIT on the Misery of WE THE PEOPLE

EVERY other Industrialized country has some form of single-payer health care

they live longer - they are healthier - and insure 100% of their citizens for around half of what we charge to cover 75% of our citizens.


ALSO want a bureaucrat between you and your doctor -  buy private health insurance

Want rationing of health care -  (denial of benefits)  buy private health insurance

want to pay someone who has NOTHING to do with curing your illnesses - pay an insurance company “premiums”

THE health insurance industry has NEVER CURED EVEN ONE PERSON—  all they do is skim off the top before paying the true people that cure you.

THEY ARE CALLED PARASITES!

@woody - don’t you mean:

ALSO want a bureaucrat between you and your doctor -  support single payer government health care

Want rationing of health care -  (denial of benefits)  support single payer government health care

want to pay someone who has NOTHING to do with curing your illnesses - pay more in taxes for single payer health care

want to wait weeks, months, or even years to receive care - support single payer government health care

want to put an additional tax burden on the wealthiest 5 percent of the country’s population (you know, the people who own small businesses that hire 85 percent of the population, and subsequently further drive us into higher unemployment)- support single payer government health care

the only PARASITES that I see are the ones who want something for nothing - and make those who EARN their money through entrepreneurship and smart work pay for it!

the mantra of the socialist left - take from those who earn it, give to the lazy and shiftless who don’t and won’t…

JB - are you saying that the 14,000 people each day that lose their health insurance are lazy and shiftless?

Do you mean to say that the 876,000 people who go bankrupt each year because of medical bills - despite having insurance - are lazy and shiftless?

And are you saying that the health insurance companies don’t have any bureaucrats telling people what treatments they will pay for and not pay for?

@emerson - in a word, no.

If that is so, then your previous comments don’t really make much sense. Health Care is bankrupting America while a lot of people are standing on the sideline with crossed arms saying “NO” and spreading a lot of groundless fear without engaging constructively in the debate.

We know what you are afraid of, but let’s hear your ideas about how fix this debacle called the American health care “system.”

We need tort reform and we need to digitize medical records. Both of those things will drastically reduce the health care costs. Raising my federal income tax liability to 50% to pay for those less fortunate is not the answer.

America is NOT suppose to be a country where we take money from those who have it and give it to those that do not. Nobody seems to understand that raising taxes on guys like me and stringing out those small business owners with higher taxes is NOT the solution. Those of us who have sat down every two weeks to figure out how we are going to make payroll get a little sensitive when we hear that the federal government is going to raise taxes by 600 BILLION dollars and then tell us what kind of treatment we can and cannot have.

I agree that some form of tort reform (in an overall sense) is a good idea. However, the states that have passed tort reform legislation already have not experienced any drop in the cost of health care. Most studies show that tort reform would impact overall cost in negligible ways.

I am the entrepreneur and business person you are talking about. But health insurance costs are the number one hinderance to me in hiring more employees.

Doing nothing they say that health insurance costs will rise another 70%! Think about that before you talk about what kills employment and business… Imagine paying 70% more for health care for your employees than you do now…

That’s the do nothing tax that the Republicans want to impose.

I am not suggesting we do nothing.

If the HMO Act of 1973 were repealed, wouldn’t that give you incentive to hire more people?  It certainly would for me…

Requiring employers to provide health insurance was a bad idea that only benefits those in the health care industry.  If that law were repealed, it would go a long way in alleviating the burden on business owners in companies with more than 25 employees.

Doing nothing is a bad idea, I agree.  Taking government out of the health care equation is a good idea.  Business owners are burdened enough by government as it is.  But then again, you would know that…

Emerson as a logical person I agree with you on the fact that health care costs are rising. As a logical person though I have to question that 70% figure that we keep seeing on the “vote for health care or the world ends” commercials. As you know, statistics can be changed to support ones agenda, and I believe that is exactly what is going on here. As a business person, I am sure that you know that providing health care for employees is NOT required unless you employ a certain number of people.

Sure it may remove a legal obligation for me to provide health insurance—but it sure wouldn’t solve the problem of health insurance for my employees… The only thing that would happen is that I would have more employees without health insurance.

I think the entire employee-based health care paradigm is a failed concept. We don’t require employers to pay for the schooling of their employee’s children, we don’t require employers to pay for the roads that employees take to our place of business.

A basic foundation for infrastructure, education and health care should be the provision of the society in general and not placed as unique burdens of employers - that’s why I am for a baseline single-payer system.

If businesses want to offer additional insurance or benefits over and above that (like Aflac)—that is up to the business. Whether or not my employee’s son gets cancer treatment shouldn’t be my (the employers) worry—that should be the worry of our entire nation.

@ Scott: Health Care costs have increased 100% since I started providing it to my employees. What makes you think that another 70% increase is unlikely?

I still fail to see how government would do a better job of providing health care than private industry.  “Nanny state” systems like those in Canada and Europe don’t work - I’ve heard from enough victims of these systems to convince me, despite published evidence to the contrary.

Certain elements, such as records digitization, are useful and would serve to reduce cost, but are fraught with issues and can be co-opted too easily by government for surveillance on its population - an issue that is already making enough inroads into health care reform.

If these systems are supposed to be so wonderful, then we need to listen to the other side of the issue - from those who are victims of the systems they use and are taxed for.

the trouble with trying to have a “debate” with the extreme rightwing like JB is that they WILL NOT accept the TRUTH.

And they never met a corporate thug they didn’t think deserves every nickle they every stole from the public.

So give them facts about single payer being cheaper in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY - they’ll deny it

1+1=3 to them…and they’ll look you right in the eye nad tell you - “You don’t have proof that 1+1=3”

and just read his post above -  he DOESN"T BELEIVE that the health insurance industry denies treatment.

IT"S called HAVING YOUR HEAD STUCK IN THE SAND—

and being PROUD OF IT!!!

unbelievable…....

just another rich freelaoder sucking the blood from the working man that actually pays the bills and builds EVERYTHING in this country.

For the most part the wealthy are a PARASITE on America -  adding nothing of value all the while sucking every nickle they can out of America. A

AND they call the working class shiftless and lazy….

1+1=3 to these anti-democratic rightwingers.

JB and Scott
Who provides your health care and how much does it cost?

Oh come on Woody,
Who cares about the truth when you have FOX NEWS and KGEZ? THe truth is irrelevant. Being scared, very, very, scared of the government and your own shadow is what matters.

And what truth would that be, exactly?

Even I can see in Washington its “politics as usual”...I don’t need a news service or even a political commentator to tell me that.

Go ahead and believe in your beloved “messiah”...for all that he has done is make a bad situation worse.  Not realizing it is not only your right, but your DUTY to question what your government does, only makes you a victim.  Why don’t you “grow a pair” like coldsteel is so fond of saying, and speak out against being ripped off by health insurance companies instead of complaining.

Here we go with “talking crap”...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRRy-QlQyUw&feature=channel

JB said, “Why don’t you “grow a pair” like coldsteel is so fond of saying, and speak out against being ripped off by health insurance companies instead of complaining.”

AH Jb   -  we ARE speaking out against the health insurance industry - try reading and comprehending for JUST ONCE -  I know how hard it’ll be - but just try it one time!!!!!!!

The truth will set you free - unless of course your head is so far up your backside you start thinking up is down…..

AS I’ve said many times it’s hard to argue with people who have their heads firmly stuck in the sand -  or -  placed so far up their appendages they don’t even know that speaking out against the insurance industry and complaining about the insurance industry - ARE THE SAME THING


AND show me one time where JB and his ilk on the right complain and admit about the over-reaching powers of big business to get whatever they want -  at the expense of WE THE PEOPLE

Up above JB says he doesn’t believe that ANY INSURANCE COMPANY would ever deny coverage - and says they NEVER HAVE!!!!

TALK about lost in space and brain-dead…..

the level of brain-washing on the right is simply staggering…..

and then he pushes some wacked out nonsense on YOUTUBE!!!!!

and the rabid right talks about YOUTUBE as a respected source of news…...

along w/ the other idiots on the right like newsmax, rush, hannity, michael saveage - the jew hating jew, glenn beck and every other racist, sexist and war-mongering, corporate apologist out there…...

Your truth doesn’t set anybody free, woody - it inures us all to a life of servitude to the state - but then you socialist types like it that way.  Your slavish devotion to the socialist way of thinking is a slap in the face to every freedom loving American.

No, it is your kind that stifle creativity and innovation in the guise of protecting “WE THE PEOPLE”.  It is people like you that would take from those who have the American dream and give it to those who are not smart enough or motivated enough to do the same.

You are a LIAR also woody - I never said that Youtube was a credible source of news.  But then again, it never surprise me that you always attack those who opinions don’t lie exactly with your own by name calling, insults and outright lies - on top of being a HYPOCRITE.

I also never said that insurance companies never deny coverage - why don’t you try reading what I said instead of infering it - NOW who is lost in space and brain dead?

I also have never seen you use any DIRECT reference to any FACT you state in these forums - making your level of BRAIN WASHED NONSENSE straining belief.

Why don’t you hear that “popping sound” by pulling your head out of your backside for a change?

Since you and your ilk obviously aren’t smart enough to have lots of money, you want to take what is ours - and that won’t happen without a fight, I guarantee you.

Now I need to get back to work “taking” money from the masses…LOL…

5 Freedoms You’d Lose in Health Care Reform
by Shawn Tully
Monday, July 27, 2009

1. Freedom to choose what’s in your plan
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
5. Freedom to choose your doctors

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107408/5-freedoms-you-would-lose-in-health-care-reform.html;_ylt=AoiDhrVtBkABVoEV0I9zMxqCfNdF?mod=insurance-health

I looked Shawn Tully up and he is a big money man. DUH, he wrote that article. Yes, there will be some imperfections but right now the situation is I get to pay and pay, with little in return in terms of real healthcare. What kind of healthcare do you have and who pays for it?

for the record:

here’s JB right above on 7-28   “I also never said that insurance companies never deny coverage - why don’t you try reading what I said instead of infering it -

then go to YESTERDAY!:  Emerson said: “And are you saying that the health insurance companies don’t have any bureaucrats telling people what treatments they will pay for and not pay for?”

JB’S ANSWER WAS   “@emerson - in a word, no.”

get it together -  or at last wait a day or 2 or put it on another blog if you’re going to disregard EXACTLY what you said just 1 day before

and then granny comes in and once again PROVES how much she parrots the PR line from Big Business….

as I’ve said they wouldn’t know a FACT if it bit them on the nose

usually the arguments here go

lefties/democrats” it’s cheaper - the USA pays 17% of GDP to cover 75% of citizens and canada pays 11% of GDP to cover 100% of their citizens”

righties/rethugs ”  AHHHHH   you are idiots…. you socialists….go get a job losers…..AHHHHH one of these days we’re going to OUTLAW you socialists….I WANT MY GUNS!!!!!  AHHH -  did I call you socialists yet?

And he didn’t even directly quote a source:

woody:  lefties/democrats” it’s cheaper - the USA pays 17% of GDP to cover 75% of citizens and canada pays 11% of GDP to cover 100% of their citizens”

What’‘s your source genius?

www.democracynow.org

although those figures are well published in multiple sources, and should be well known if you’re paying ANY attention…..

but therein lies the rub for the rabid right

OK….. SO he’s a BIG money man SOOO ?  Are we to hate those that have done well for themselves ?  Are we to hate those that have what we want, or what we do not ?  THATS not American !!!  We can aspire to reach any goal, if we are willing to struggle for it, reach for it, and have the drive to make it !  He wrote this for CNN, if you even bothered to follow the link I attached.  I will not support anything that I will loose any form of freedom over ( In my book we have already lost too many !!!). I have had the same doctor for 20 years, NO ONE should have the right to change that !!!  For now, it is America, FOR NOW it is my choice whom I choose for my health care, WHO I choose to be my doctor, and if I am willing to pay, how great my medical care may be.  I do not want to be led along like some sheep, told where to go, how to live, what to drive, what my heat should be turned too, and what my health care will do, those are MY decisions, as it should be, after all it’s my hard earned money, and it is MY life…......

Mr a.  It is non of your business whom I have my health care with. However I will assure you that it comes out of each pay check bit by bit, and that it does not fully cover all medical expenses, the excess I have to pay by out of pocket cash…......  Should I now start to whine, and complain that it is not right that I have to pay to take care of myself, that someone out there should take that responsibility for me ?  NO, I lost that the day I lost having a mama, and a daddy they were my first and last caretakers , at some point we are all on our own !

Then you are happy with what you have? While it isn’t my business as to what you have for health insurance. I was hoping to understand what others have to help put things into perspective.
I would rather work together to solve problems then take on the world by myself.
I am not into “every man for himself and in the name of God, we all get a gun”. I am more a socialist. OMG, I said the s-word!

granny: are the words of our President good enough for you?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/28/758994/-President-Obama-on-the-Public-Option

“And the other thing that we do want to do — now, this is controversial, and I understand some people are worried about this — we do think that it makes sense to have a public option alongside the private option.  So you could still choose a private insurer, but we’d also have a public plan that you could choose from that would be non-for-profit, wouldn’t have, hopefully, some of the same high administrative costs, and would be potentially more responsive to your needs at a lower cost.  I think that helps keep the insurance companies honest because now they have somebody to compete with.

And I have to say, the reason this has been controversial is a lot of people have heard this phrase “socialized medicine” and they say, we don’t want government-run health care; we don’t want a Canadian-style plan.  Nobody is talking about that.  We’re saying, let’s give you a choice.  You can choose the private marketplace, or this other approach.

And I got a letter the other day from a woman; she said, I don’t want government-run health care, I don’t want socialized medicine, and don’t touch my Medicare.  (Laughter.)  And I wanted to say, well, I mean, that’s what Medicare is, is it’s a government-run health care plan that people are very happy with. But I think that we’ve been so accustomed to hearing those phrases that sometimes we can’t sort out the myth from the reality.”

Ya know, that third paragraph pretty much underscores how ignorant people are about the health care debate, the definition of socialism, and how badly you and so many here buy into the scare tactics of the corporatists while proudly proclaiming your libertarian/“independent” values.

I await the day when men in the US Senate who will defend liberty and replace tyrants like Senator Reid.

a :  I can respect what your wishes are for your life, BUT that does not mean that I would want it in mine.  I am true red, white, and blue. Yes I firmly believe in to each man his own, I’ve never griped about having to do, and care for myself and family, and I have never expected someone else to step up and take care of us. Now know, it was not always easy, but the glory is in the ” We did it”.  Am I happy with the expenses of health care ? well NO, BUT I would never expect that you hand over whats yours to take care of me, and I would ask for the same respect. I also would never want you too loose any rights so that my life could be easier, and I would also ask for the same in return.
KN :  I trust no mans words, I only trust a mans actions, words and promises are easily spoken, and leave you with nothing to hold. A mans actions speak louder. So NOPE his words, or no one elses would I put any amount of faith in.  anyone can promise to do wonders, blunders and <bleep> green cucumbers, I’ll believe it when I see it, and not trust it til then !!

woody - is that where you get everything you claim as a fact?
Yeah, published in “well known” leftist sources - that’s why I probably never see these “facts”.  No wonder you are such a “hater”.

Every time the President opens his mouth, another lie comes out.  Obama is an agent of Wall Street finance capital - he is controlled by Wall Street finance oligarchs.  He has spent 4 times more taxpayer money in the first 6 months of his presidency than any other President - and has accomplished absolutely NOTHING.  Bush started the breaking of our country - and Obama is finishing the job.  God help us.

So granny: how many years until you’re eligible for SocSec?  Will you apply?  Will you enroll in Medicare? Or will your husband (while he is capable) or your children be your final caretakers?  Who’s gonna wipe your hindend when you are no longer able?  Who is really gonna take care of you and pay your bills when you can’t handle your last years?

Who will care for your so bravely independent existence when you can’t do it for yourself?

Who?

Granny, who are you kidding about being the independent person, who no one else helps. you drive to work?  Roads built by a socialist government—ours. Were you educated? you can read, Education- another socialist phenomenon.
You get a pay check and if you lose your job you will get unemployment…...........thanks to those socialists. Is your water safe? how about your food. It’s true, Reagan wanted to get rid of those of those nasty food inspectors but found capitalists aren’t as careful with our food supply as socialists.
The GI Bill that educated our parents….......you got it socialism.
I think we should trust our health care system to socialism because when I am old or I crush my hand and can’t work anymore I do want someone there to wipe my hind-end. Thanks Kalispell Native for that visual. I think…...........

Woody, why don’t you stick to attacking the issues in this column, not at others trying to make a point.  Your “sociopath” comment is beneath contempt.

JB:  Funny how Woody throws such low blow insults against others, and his nasty comments stay.Ever notice That you better not reply in kind ?.  I guess it is because he can sure dish it, but cant take it when you give him his own medicine back.  But there is no need to point out whos words are clearly that of a social reject.  We can just be thankful that we are in control of our lives, our mouths, and our thoughts. How sad to be hearing all those little angry voices in ones head…........  Dont they make a pill for that, or is it just a straight jacket still ??

I’ve also have seen woody’s comments get removed as well.  When he can’t bring up new points to support his position, he resorts to attacking individuals - I don’t think he knows how to constructively argue.  Anybody who doesn’t think like he does, to him, is clearly a “sociopath”...must be painful to bewrapped up so tightly; there is clearly some angst there.

“None of us has gotten where we are solely by pulling ourselves up from our own bootstraps. We got here because somebody bent down and helped us…..” Thurgood Marshall 1908-1993

@a - good quote.  It reminds us that we all need help at some point.

At times, we do need help from others.  I depend on others for my living - without customers, I wouldn’t have a business and enjoy the lifestyle that I have.  We do need others to be able to be free to live our lives.

I also agree that government does provide services to its people that no other group provides, whether internally or externally or both.

My point is that people are becoming too dependent on government to help them in their lives - and have consistently proven that they cannot be wholly trusted to perform in the people’s best interest.  It is our obligation to speak out when government oversteps its authority and responsibility.  If we don’t do exactly that, we are guilty of that same government turning into something that we do not want.

“The republican is the only form of government which is not
eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind.”
—Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Address, 1790.

Because their beliefs serve their ego rather than reality, Leftists just KNOW what is good for us. Conservatives need evidence.  =0 )~

I am reading the book “The Hemingses of Monticello: An American Family by Annette Gordon-Reed”. I am really struggling with Jefferson, Washington and rest of the founding fathers who were slave owners. Jefferson was not a settled man, even in his own mind.

Our government can do a lot for us and like in many other countries, it’s ok to ask.

Ok, I have to work, too.

I wish the focus of discourse and debate in America would move away from whether or not we should have a government to one that is based on the reality that a government is a necessary part of a civilized and successful society.

Some things are best done by the government. It is our democratic responsibility to make sure it does a good job at what it does.

Sometimes the government does a good job at things, other times it doesn’t. This is the same for private industry - it does a good job at some things, not as well.

I just get frustrated sometimes when the Republican’s sole philosophy is government=bad and private industry and corporations=good. This is not a helpful nor realistic philosophy for a complex nation and world.

SOCIALIST
A person who believes that giving people money will get them out of poverty, based on generalizations that all rich people and corporations are greedy, someone who believes in, ultimately limited freedom of speech and freedom of thought, and believes that some humans (government) are better than others at making decisions for everyone, although if people are truly equal everyone would make decisions for themselves and only themselves.
Examples of Socialist states are: East Germany, Russia 1945-1989,

@emerson - to me, government is a necessary evil.  Even though it performs some things badly, we still need it to perform those functions that make easier for us all.

And, you are absolutely right - it is our responsibility to not only make sure it performs its function, but also to question it when it doesn’t.  Same goes with big business.

I am not advocating abolishing government at all - even though at times it may sound like I am - that would be sheer lunacy.  My point is, government needs to serve the people, not the other way around.  Government is in place for us.  Politicians all too often forget that fact - even though they say it the loudest at election time.  It works when a politician does not serve the interests of the people, and someone replaces that politician who will serve the people’s needs.  However, we all know this is not tha case - politicians in Washington do (and say) whatever they have to, to keep themselves where they are, and the requests of the people fall on deaf ears.

I really don’t care which side they are on - left, right, independent, whatever - all I want is a government that will abide by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and will make laws that fall in line with those precepts and serve ALL of the people of this nation.

EXACTLY JB !