Comments on: Relocated Grizzlies Raise Concerns for Residents
By MontanaTrace on 11-24-11
A hunter friend declares he fears for his safety when he goes in the woods for elk. Too many grizzlies. Another friend on the edge of town has lost his chickens. Another, nearby, has had numerous break-ins. These are in the Haskill Basin area and Edgewood Drive, only minutes to town. Should we have a limit?
By redhawk on 11-24-11
Bring back a limited hunting season on bears and they will learn to fear humans again. It will reduce their numbers to their current habitat, and hunters will be picking off the bears who approach humans. Plus, lots of money to the state for the licenses. They are a big predator who is not much suited to suburban living. I have several friends who have had to deal with transplanted bears, and it’s frustrating and frightening to know that FWP has dropped a ‘criminal bear’ in their back yard. By the way, dropping a bad bear off into another bear’s territory upsets the ecology of the new area.
In the Bob Marshall there have been several encounters with bears that have been lured to the trails by the bait set within yards of heavily traveled trails. The DNA researchers did not follow their own protocol when setting up the barbed wire and fish guts. Of course nothing will be done to protect people, horses, livestock and buildings. Too many people making decisions who know nothing of ecology, except from Disney movies…
By NatureMan on 11-24-11
Iit’s a dam shame there are too many bears, they need to open a hunt so they are afraid of humans, and otherwise they will not only be relocated but shot, which isn’t fair to them. To kill them just because they are “problem bears” isn’t right in my book, and relocating them is a joke, they just continue to look for easy food. The answer is to hunt them, sorry to you environmentalists, it’s necessary to do something proactive.
By mooseberryinn on 11-24-11
I say send in obama! Let him hunt the bears and when he’s done, he can report his findings to one of his czars. No weapons for him of course.
By Patriot Man on 11-24-11
I agree, limited “quota” hunts are needed. Montana should be managing their wildlife, not the USF&W Service, touting the Threatened and Endangered Species Act. If the wolf situation is an indicator, it will be years before a legal grizzly hunt can be enacted. How much private property will be destroyed or innocent Montana human lives lost, before the needed and proper action is advanced?
By Kokanee on 11-24-11
How much of this is being caused by wolves ?
I have heard that a study is being done, for what outcome who knows. It does not take much common sense to know that when you add another apex predator to a limited area something has to give.
By jimbo on 11-25-11
Delisting grizzlies and have a hunt for them will make the whole wolf fiasco look like recess for kindergarten.
I hope it happens soon, but I sure won’t be holding my breath.
By CHO2 on 11-25-11
Someone needs to remember, that the HUMANS are invading on the bears territory. Remember, THEY were there first. I therefore feel, that there is a lack of respect for them on the human side. Killing them is NOT the solution to this whole thing. It seems like the HUMANS are the ones who are losing more and more fear of the bears. it seems like humans need to find a better way of protecting their livestock and farm animals. You already know this is a problem, so FIND A WAY to build livestock holdings and to stock their food and grain in more secure places. DONT leave things in places where the bears, or any other livestock for that matter will tempt them. To stop this from happening you first have to be smarter than the bears. Killing them is not the solution. I would love for future generations to be able to see and live among this most BEAUTIFUL and AWESOME of GODS creations….
By jimbo on 11-25-11
CHO would you have us all live in highrise buildings, and stay out of the forests completely? Are you a preservationist or conservationist? By your posts I already know the answer, just wondering if you have a clue.
You do know it was HUMANS that brought these beasts back from the brink of GEOGRAPHICAL extinction, don’t you? Contrary to your understanding, HUMANS are GODS creations, in his likeness, and are the TOP of the food chain.
We can and will live with bears, but not unlimited numbers of them. They need far more country to live WITH EACH OTHER than there is getting to be in this small portion of their former territory. Their numbers need to be limited.
Humans losing fear of bears? Riiiiight. We are smarter than bears, always, but you can’t stop a bear from ripping even metal siding on a garage back like a sardine can, just to get at a few pieces of food that mice stored in between the studs!!!
By MontanaTrace on 11-25-11
CHO2: if it were only that simple. They’ll be coming after you and I don’t mean just the bears. You want to live among them? The over/under would be about two nights.
Look, no one wants them all gone. Just like any animal that kills for food (that’s us humans too), the source can often be whatever is available. We are protecting them and ourselves and our own sources of food (chickens, cattle, etc.). We protect the grizzlies by law. We care. They are respected and even loved. We are observing and wondering if we need to lower the speed limit.
Do you believe in controlling numbers? How about “thinning the herd?” Ever consider how to protect birthing cattle on a ranch of 1,000 acres that borders grizzly habitat? Side bar: how many porcupines cause the death of mother cows? How? Why? I propose you don’t really know much and are shooting from the emotional hip. Take your protective interests and educate yourself. There are several sides to this coin. Learn all of them, not just the one of emotions.
Your comments are heartfelt but are naive. This is a very complicated subject. Learn more. Spend some time in the woods. Walk quietly, wear a bacon necklace. Make notes. You’ll get some quick time understanding of those you would like to live among.
I’m pleased they are there. Do you know how many came into towns this year? Grizzlies increase 3% a year. Land space increases 0% per year. When are there so many we should have a limit? How about we form a spay and neuter task force? Wanna volunteer? Why are we controlling wolf numbers? Not the same at all but maybe there are some common themes.
CHO2, intellectual caring is a start. You may be there already. No go to school. Learn the complexities. Hope you enjoyed your Montana farm raised turkey.
By montanaeasy56 on 11-25-11
I think the FB missed the REAL story on these bear relocations. For years the experts at FWP including Kasworm have told the public that they “DO NOT” relocate problem bears. This story alone shows just how much they lie to the general public and have for years. If breaking into buildings, killing goats, chickens, and other fowl doesn’t constitute a “problem” bear, then they sure have a different definition of a problem bear. I guess to them, when someone gets mauled or killed,THEN it is a problem bear.
By mooseberryinn on 11-26-11
Relocate the grizzlies to Washington D.C. this could solve a number of problems.
By CHO2 on 11-26-11
I thank you all for your feelings on my comment and even though you disagree with me, it doesnt change my mind about them being KILLED. Surely there has to be another way to control them than killing them. I feel that ANYONE putting a cattle ranch at or near a grizzly ber habitat is encroaching upon the bears rights. Yes, I MAY be shooting from the emotional hip as Montana Trace so kindly stated, however, I also feel that any animal lover will probably agree with me. There needs to be another way to control them. As for their being more bears than land, how bout lets leave MONTANA the beautiful open country it has always been. I meawn afterall, us americans have to have soewhere that is untouchged to a degree….....open and free for us to show our grandchildren and their grnd children. Say I am a dreamer…....who cares…..As Americans we are all greedy and want it all…........well guess what, u cant have it all…..........not even some of it…..........As for the comment, wanna come help spay, tell me when and where and i woulod be one of the first ones there…............TO HELLP preserve some of natures finest specimens…...Buy a Montana raised turkey, I didnt buy a turkey at all this year…....Dont get me wrong, I understand what all of you are saying, but find it hard to accept…....there has to be a way relocate ir control, but NOT KILL…...
By BiggerMig on 11-27-11
CHO2—What does not buying a turkey have to do with any of this?
By great bear on 11-27-11
I support the right to arm bears
By Passin through on 11-27-11
CHO2 and others.
I understand both sides but I have to agree with CHO2 with the amount of people who decide they want to live without neighbors oe suddenly decide they are Dan’l Boone and what to live where the wild life raon, then find they are not the cute little critters the Uncle Walt made them to be in his movies or cartoons.
The chipmonk who comes in your house is not just trying to steal your nuts but chewing on your wiring and tearing up your papers or walls, the the deer that just wonders in and out of the frame is now eatting your flowers and OHH NO that skunk had the nerve to sit on your back step or worse you foolish dog chased it and now your stuck with how to get rid of the smell ( hint if it is on something you can put some sand on and leave for a few hours the smell will go away)
By CHO2 on 11-27-11
I guess the buyin a turkey part came from Montana Trace’s comment of I hope you enjoyed your Montana turkey this year. Do ya think that maybe Montana Trace is the turkey…....HA HA HA HA….Love ya Trace and totally respect your comments and feelings…...CHO2
By Passin through on 11-27-11
Sorry to be posting twice but my kitten jumped up and hit the enter key.
If your going to live among the wild life as some here have said learn about them, we had a guy put in the newspaper after losing a couple sheep thought to be a wolf problem ( found out later it was not wolves but two dogs who were left behind when thier owners moved away) and I quote” I dont see why they are bothering my sheep I put posted signs up” Unquote…I answered back what school in the nieghborhood taught reading to the wild life.
Or the people who put hay out for deer for years and now the state here says no more,so loads of deer now are not getting the easy meal and diing off because they can’t get what they need to live, by doing what deer should be doing in the winter…
My concern is as CHO2 where does the wild life move when more and more people move into thier back yard then decide I AM MAN so you have to go… just how many zoos do we open so some of the animals are not lost forever.
Yes we have brought some back but it was not easy.
This is not a win win situation for both sides, and I fear in the end we will lose more animals beause we have people who can’t learn something about them before moving into thier bit of land or can’t wait for a reason to grab a gun and get out there and shoot the woods up.
As I said I understand both sides but there is no easy or good answer for this.
By MontanaTrace on 11-27-11
CHO2. Do you eat meat? Wear leather? Do you believe there is a food chain? Should hunting be outlawed? Believe there can be too many fish in a lake that can make the oxygen level too low? Can the same thing happen in the woods? Do you believe in thinning the herd? Do you believe an overpopulated forest can create a food shortage? Should population levels be controlled so starving wildlife don’t have to resort to eating ranchers dogs? Should a sheep rancher protect his animals with sheep dogs or allow the wolves and bears to come in to harvest an occasional meal meal? They only come in town when they have to. Right? Do you believe a wolf pack will kill the sheep dogs and llamas to get to the sheep and cattle? Do you believe that when a bear finds apples or chickens he will return and return? Will he kill to get to that food source? Do you believe the bears would stay in the woods and away from humans if there was enough food in the woods? Too many bears equals too much competition. Do you believe bears are killed by trains? Why/how?
Can there be too many species for a healthy forest? Read about how the elk don’t move without the wolves as they destroy saplings and future tree growth. Then read about how a southern Montana wolf pack killed 120 sheep in a matter of an hour. Didn’t eat any, just killed them. Wolves: to be or not to be, has been answered. But, how many? http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_5ff01772-938f-11de-9aca-001cc4c03286.html
Yes, it’s emotional. Should humans inject themselves into the system to keep a healthy forest of thriving wildlife? Should we put out forest fires started by lightning? So many questions. So many opinions. Learn both/all sides. Study, listen and vote with your intellect not just to feel good.
Want to help the grizzlies breed? Join the artificial insemination team:http://www.duckboy.com/index.php/postcards/montana-postcards.html
By CHO2 on 11-27-11
here goes that old school game again….I NEVER EVER said anything about helping the grizzliers breed….....matter of fact i said i would help with the neutering/spaying if i had the chance. I also feel that if given the chance that all wildlife would probably control themselves the same as humans do….......oh I forgot….....the humanjs dont control themselves either. HOWEVER, you dont find them eating eachother for food….......just other wild life, the same as the bears are doing. It is called population control. It is called the circle of life…....
By MontanaTrace on 11-27-11
http://www.bearsmart.com/media/1033
www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/.../grizzly/delstingQandA.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/dsr/bear/
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/wildlife/facts/mammals/bear/black_bear_problem_faq.htm
http://bearinfo.org/grizzlies/faqs/
Global warming is taking away one of the most important food sources. The white pine nut. Beetles are killing trees. Temps need to go down to -30/35f for five days to kill the beetles. We are warming. The cycle of warming/cooling continues. The earth changes. Glacier are melting, beetles are thriving and yet bears are increasing. The bears will have to start coming into human territory for food. In Yellowstone, bear numbers are increasing 7% annually, even with record deaths. Yellowstone has 100+ grizzlies above the 500 studies show to be a healthy count. What now?
By MontanaTrace on 11-27-11
Grizzly insemination was a JOKE! Open the link to see the team. It is one of Montana’s funniest post cards.
Soylent green. This will one day be perfect for human and bear comsumption. The Donner’s survived on it.
Yeh, whatever happened to ZPG?
By CHO2 on 11-28-11
Montana Trace , I just want to thank you for posting that link to the destruction of sheep by the pack of wolves. You made me START to see this situation a little differently. First off, I didnt realize that the ranchers became attached to their stock. I thought that they were just a source of income when they have herds that large. However it is EASY to see how you could become attached to them. However I think I still feel that we could relocate a HUGE part of these animals to another part of the nation….......like Yellowstone, as was commented on earlier. I mean, aftrerall, if the food was plentiful enough for them out in THEIR part of the country then they wouldnt be coming into HUMAN territory to feed off of ours .......WOULD THEY???
By MontanaTrace on 11-28-11
CHO2: You are looking at the tip of….. you know. It’s very complicated. There’s no one size fits all but that’s what is trying to be done by the government and the “animal lovers” and tree huggers, etc.. Each well intended….........
Yellowstone and so many of the wild areas are having food shortages. We can’t just dump more animals because some are doing well. The balance is already off. From what I read, Yellowstone is in serious trouble in several areas. Increases could be disastrous even though intent seemed like it “might be a good idea.” I’m not the expert but I do read a lot. There is a lot to read. And, it often reads differently. It reads according to the wants of the writers’ affiliation. Authors and studies are almost representative of some financial “sponsor” who is looking for a specific result. Articles contradict, as each party wants to get their way. Many environmentalist and animal lovers may be well intended but to follow some of their ideas and DEMANDS would make things worse. Unfortunately, lobbyists, carrying money and votes influence our chosen leaders into making wrong decisions. Now, what was a theory, is government mandate
We can’t go back, we don’t like where we are, so we better be smart before we make changes that can’t be undone.
eg Where did all the eagles go that used to feed in Glacier Park’s Lake McDonald? Why have certain species of trout gone away in the largest fresh water lake west of the Mississippi? MAN! “We’re from the government and we’re here to help.” Again, well intended but…...... it backfired! The environmentalists have sued everyone for every reason imaginable. There are multiple opposing opinions. Too often the environmentalist’s extreme approaches will be damaging, even tough they profess to be saving the planet. Politics of the left and the right.
Mysis shrimp were introduced into Swan, Ashley and Whitefish lakes by the state in the early 1980s to enhance growing Kokanee salmon populations. Eagles loved the salmon but now they are gone? We decided to help nature. Mysis eventually invaded Flathead Lake, Glacier Park, etc. where they turned out to be anything but beneficial. Kokanee salmon, bull trout and cutthroat trout populations in Flathead Lake have struggled to survive or died off completely as government introduced lake trout took dominion.
What is happening in the water is happening on land. Only difference is fur vs. fins.
Something that may help your beginning to see through all this difficult decision making is that road kills are now taken to the woods…........ sometimes. But wait…. is that a good idea?
Take your opinions and park them for awhile. There’s a lot yet to studied and learned. Your opinions will modify and sometimes even become reversed. Take your time. We may only get one chance to get it right or screw it up…..... forever.
By CHO2 on 11-28-11
You made some very good points…....the best one being, “take your time. we may only get once chance to get it right or screw it up ........forever. However, man also needs to take a good look at things and see what is the best for wildlife AND humans both….....it seems that something is off balance here SOMEWHERE and needs correcting….....HOW you ask?......WHO KNOWS !!!!
By hotfishmt on 11-29-11
Be my small thinking about the Grizz problem…a side note: It does not take long….driving 206 or up US 2 toward Coram…to see places/houses/homes/shacks…..on the side of mountains or a side hill….on land that I used to think that was owned by the USFS….and I’d bet some serious $$$ that the problem bears are near these hard to get too places.I mean look at the place on the backside of Teakettle Mountain….where I used to walk & hunt in the 80’s, and some places on the side of the Columbian Range….visible from Badrock Fire Dept area…..up & up…. in what used to be Bear Country…..so….FISH & GAME…..why not give us locations….other than East of 206 etc….give more details so intelligent opinions can be fostered.
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.