Listening to the Republican legislators at this meeting trying to blame the Department of Revenue for the assessment increases is the height of hypocrisy.  The assessment process is the product of the legislature and the Republicans there were grossly negligent and indifferent when this issue was discussed in the last session.  Of course, it’s utterly typical for Republicans to shirk responsibility for their crude mistakes that harm our state and our nation.

Governor Brian Schweitzer did not sign House Bill 658. Although he was unhappy with the bill he allowed it to become law without his signature because a reappraisal bill was necessary to prevent major increases in taxes for many homeowners.

The Senate, which was controlled by Republicans, rewrote the appraisal bill and only passed it on the last day of the legislative session even though they had the ENTIRE legislative session to get the bill passed.

If the governor vetoed the bill that meant no help for anyone in regards to their property taxes.  Otherwise a special session would have to be called and a waste of taxpayer dollars.  How long do you think they would argue in a special session with each day costing the taxpayers more dollars?  Do these people who want a special session think they are free?

From an earlier Beacon article:

However, Sen. Bruce Tutvedt, a Kalispell Republican who helped rewrite the bill as a member of the Senate Taxation Committee, said the legislation achieves the directives Gov. Brian Schweitzer set forth before the session began: design the reappraisal mitigation so the state collects no more money from property owners under the new values than it already does.

“We did exactly what the governor asked,” Tutvedt said. “This is a very good bill, very fair.”

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/showdown_over_property_tax_mitigation_comes_to_a_head/9750/

Everyone has known how the land values around the lake have risen since the last reappraisal.  The Flathead Republican legislators should have known this and made sure these landowners were considered.  Now they are trying to pass the buck and blame the Dept of Revenue. 

According to several legislators, they voted on the measure thinking that roughly 300 landowners would be outliers. The actual number provided on later data, they said, is closer to 3,000.

“It was completely hidden when I looked at the chart, otherwise I never would have voted for it,” Sen. Verdell Jackson, R-Kalispell, said. “I am very unhappy with what happened.”

Oh, really.  300 people don’t matter?

So I gather from the reason the Republican legislators are blaming the Dept of Revenue the problem the Republicans have is the number of people affected.  I guess they don’t care about everyone, else they would have tried to help the outliers even if they only numbered 300 people.

At least Jopek the Democrat has been consistent in his attitude towards the bill.  The Republicans liked the bill, don’t like the bill.  Voted for, now wouldn’t vote for it.  They remind me of John Kerry in 2004 and his silly flip-flops.  Well, maybe not all Republicans are flip-flopping on the bill as it appears Tutvedt still likes the bill.  To quote the article: “As well-attended as the meeting was, Sen. Bruce Tutvedt, R-Kalispell, pointed out that many people in Montana are pleased with the mitigation.”

And perish the thought that anyone should mention that a number these Flathead County Republicans who are complaining so loudly and blaming the Department of Revenue are themselves fat cats who own or develop property—both residential and commercial —around Whitefish and Flathead Lakes. 

These same folks have benefitted mightily from the property value increases from 2002 to 2008, but still refuse to accept any responsibility for their own greed, selfishness and legislative laziness. 

One wonders how much of this land Greg Barkus, the Averills and Bob Keenan own?

If our legislators would stop spending money like drunken sailors, property taxes could not only be held the same, they could be reduced.

On average, 83 percent of property taxes directly finance local government services and schools.

The rest, 17 percent, go to the state mostly to equalize the funding of schools across the state with a small portion going to the Montana university system.

Last I heard, mobile homes were registered and taxed as motor vehicles.  If it is on a permanent foundation, it may be otherwise.  The property taxes we are all talking about is the Land/permanent building taxes, not taxes on a private owned mobile on rented property.

From the 4-19-09 Beacon article (TallTree’s link):

Programs providing tax assistance to the elderly, disabled vets, renters and those whose property taxes increased drastically remain the same.

But the original version of Jopek’s bill would have increased assistance to these elderly, low-income and disabled residents – a provision the Senate Taxation Committee removed.

During the Senate floor debate over the bill, Sen. Christine Kaufmann, D-Helena, tried to amend the bill to reinsert the increased funding for those programs and simplify their criteria, so more homeowners could determine whether they qualify for the assistance.

This would have been paid for with funds raised by removing the homestead exemption on vacant land.

===========================================

Tutvedt (R) opposed the amendment…saying money raised by eliminating the exemption on vacant land did not compensate for what the expanded programs would cost, and in areas like Flathead County, adding taxes to these lands would put additional stress on platted subdivisions already on the verge of bankruptcy.

Jopek (D) doesn’t buy that reasoning.
“They took that funding and they gave it to developers,” Jopek said. “I just think that’s wrong; I think it breaks our promise.”

I’m willing to stand with older homeowners, even if it means coming back for four or five days to do it right,” Jopek said

The Republicans controlled the MT Senate.  The Republicans in the Senate rewrote the property tax bill to change it into the form we know now.  The Republicans in the Senate passed the bill on the last day of the legislative session ensuring that either the Montana citizens were stuck with this bill, or if the governor vetoed it we were stuck with no bill for property tax relief.  Not only are the governor and Democrats blaming the Republican legislators, Independents are too.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:16.

What will it take to reunite our country ? I swear you finger pointers sicken me he did this he did that we did not do that they did. Is it any wonder there is so much apathy towards government with all the people involved standing around poking each other in the eye. Not one viable solution will ever come from all this bickering just more name calling and division.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOUR PETTY DIFFERENCES WE ALL ARE SUFFERING SOME MORE THAN OTHERS SO LETS FIX IT THERE ARE A BUNCH OF GOD #$@! EINSTIENS ON HERE SO RESOLVE IT. IF THERE IS EVER ANOTHER WAR ON OUR SOIL YOU BET YOUR A$$ I WILL USE A POLITICIAN FOR A SHIELD FROM ANY SHRAPNEL

Koke:

Understood.  A lot of the problems that pop up in the media are ‘petty’.  It’s the nature of the beast..sell advertising.

Property tax issues do effect people locally though.

Any Einsteins on here are NOT going to fix the problem.  That will be done by getting personally involved, or through the election process.  It’s the latter that is a big part of the discussion under this topic.

This bill didn’t “just happen”.  It evolved over a period of time.

That’s why I thought it important to re-re copy that bit about the issue of tax assistance and how EACH side stated it’s position, at least within the confines of the Beacon article.  (As well as clarifying some points on renters, the elderly and vacant land.)

This issue here WILL get resolved.

I think it’s fine that the poster’s here poke each other in the eye - just realize you’re going to change anyone’s mind or resolve any problems.

I agree, elected officials are different - they get paid to resolve these issues.  The time for finger pointing is over.

Each voter should keep informed, assign blame or credit and vote accordingly.

One final re-re-re quote:

“...and simplify their criteria, so more homeowners could determine whether they qualify for the assistance.”

Notice it was stated that this was only for INCREASED funding of an assistance program already in place.

Worth checking out?

- just realize you’re NOT going to change anyone’s mind or resolve any problems.

John Adams: “There is nothing I dread so much as a division of the Republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader and converting measures into opposition to each other.”

Wonder what he would say now

After reading McCullough’s book on Adams…I think he would have said:  “Toldja so.”  Only more eloquently.

My final point on the subject at hand:

I would assume BOTH sides of the legislature used the same (faulty?) DoR data set to arrive at their conclusions.

Yet there was a difference of opinion on the outcome.

Was the (faulty) data set REALLY a determining factor ?

Thank you TallTree for your common sense post of what happened there.  Kyllen wrote an excellent editorial recently also.  For those who are really interested in knowing the truth, you can read his words here….  http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/passing_a_bad_tax_bill/14490/

So let me get this straight:

Property values go up 60+ percentage points in 6 years here in the Flathead valley. Many take advantage of that by either selling their homes at huge profits and/or upgrading into a new home or…..taking out a HELOC and we throw the government under the bus for high taxes? Seriously?

The “market” drove up the prices in the valley so the government needs to go out and fix the “tax error” so that appraisals are less?

How about we show some restraint in the future and not put our homes on the market for 400% more than we paid for them so that people who make less than 300,000 a year can afford to buy a decent home with a little bit of land around here.

Sheesh!

Scott, your sheesh does not take into consideration those who did NOT do EXACTLY what you accused those who did:  they did not sell for 400% profits. 

They just live there within the budgets they can afford and your aforementioned “market” allowed the DoR to tax the pants off them because of higher valued appraisals due to the profit takers.

We need a sales tax or a toilet paper tax that get the most out of those who buy the most and drop Montana’s personal property tax (PPT) altogether. 

That PPT tax is the single most mentioned hairball that businesses wanting to relocate to communities like ours throw up over and move their jobs somewhere else.

I think personal communication techniques, whether civil or viral, are the essence of internet communications.

These blogs are mere extensions of “chat rooms” which grew up from text based internet or… ahem, the bathroom wall, if you can follow my drift. 

So what if some comments offend, are left of proper manners, or actually use colorful metaphorical elements of visual verbalizations? 

The ability to communicate is the important aspect which needs to be retained in spirit.

The editor of the Beacon, to me is a little thin skinned, even though complainers may prompt him to close down a thread. After all, is the owner of this rag not Maury Povich?  Most of his television threads would be shut down here, using the editor’s self imposed posting “rules”.

So I recommend,lighten up, fire up and post with vigor until the flashing Beacon shuts every thread down.  Who needs real people, being real people?

I for one.

Back on topic and in response to FightOrFlight:

So your answer is to have a sales tax to fix an overvalued market? Sounds like another government solution to fix a problem that was in part created by the same government. We all know the markets were artificially inflated and they were inflated drastically. The average home price went up well past the rate of inflation. 60% in six years. The real solution is to let the markets crash and self correct. Setting up a sales tax to resolve this issue is simply not wise.

Sales tax is not the cure for what has happened.  Willing buyers paid the price and the market inflated because then the banks would loan a skunk money for a scent change.

That was then. This is now:  willing buyers will pay what willing sellers will take and the market will correct itself.

As far as sales tax, I really like the idea proposed by the couple of people who made http://www.montanasalestax.org/.

That says it all!

Poor mooseberry.  We didn’t realize that he is an economic illiterate.  Otherwise, he would know that the sales tax is the most regressive tax there is.  Now, I know regressive is a big word for you, so I’ll explain.  It means it affects lower income people more than upper income people.  Why?  Because lower income people have to spend most of their income on the basics, food, energy, health care, ordinary clothing, shoes, etc., etc., etc.  What do you suggest they should not buy?  Food for their kids, heat for their homes, gas for their cars, medicine or an occasional doctor’s visit, clothes or shoes?  It sounds like you’re a great humanitarian, moosy, but you’re not.  You’re just an amazingly selfish person. 

If you have a bit of spare cash, go out and purchase a textbook on basic economics.  I suggest Paul Samuelson’s book entitled “Economics.”  You can find a copy at the community college for a very reasonable price.  I assume, of course, that you can read.

The poor, along with the rest of us already are soaked by gasoline taxes everyday, so clear that one off the objection table.

Under the suggested sales tax, the word “regressive” goes away, and so does your bully pulpit with that exception.

Under the sales tax plan proposed most lower income people would pay ZERO sales tax on the basic of ” food, energy, health care, ordinary clothing, shoes,” medical items.

The rich would pay for their airplanes, Hummers, second and third lake and ski chalets, rings and pearls, etc.

Plus the millions of tourists would cough up their share of sales tax by coming to Montana instead of coming here to get the tax they normally pay at home off scott free because we are too goofy to enact one.  Our property owners are forced to pay their way, on their vacation, with higher personal property taxes.

Now that is regressive!

And a short but interesting article *supporting* Taz’s view albeit at the federal level)

Be sure to look for the specious arguments of the billionaires that are listed at the end.  Too funny.

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1126/042b.html

————————————————————————————————————————-

“All I want is what’s coming to me…all I want is my fair share.”

—-Sally Van Pelt

The MTGOP is just as guilty as the MTDNC of raising property taxes. As we have seen ad nauseum in todays politics having an (R) next to your name is no guarantee this legislator will protect or even care to protect your wallets and property rights. In fact, it is the GOP who ought to take on the onus of the blame. They had more than a legion of opp’s to lower and abolish property taxes, but instead they chose to follow political expediency.-now MT and the entire USA is suffering from a march toward statism and less liberty BECAUSE of the GOP’s lack of integrity and dedication to the principles of liberty. I hope there will be tons and tons of litigation against this states unfair property tax laws, maybe somebody in Helena will give a damn if individuals say ‘enough is enough’!

House Bill 658 was all about tax MITIGATION.

So, in the shell game of mitigation SOMEbody’s taxes ‘got mitigated’.

Whose?

Asset-owners vs. Homeowners ?

Eastern Montana vs. Western Montana ?

Answer:  Both.

“Answer:  Both”    ....Now THAT answer sux, Vud.

I meant to say it seems the people on the left (direction wise)
of the vs. equations above ‘got mitigated’.