http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/moneybox/2010/02/04/youre-rich-get-over-it

“As I argued in an article in August 2008, now reprised and updated, I have two pieces of bad news for the over-$250,000 crowd. First, the reversal of some of the temporary Bush tax cuts is probably inevitable, given the appalling mismanagement of fiscal affairs between 2001 and 2008. (It’s rich when Bush-era economic officials, like Edward Lazear, Greg Mankiw, and Keith Hennessey, carp about the fiscal situation.) Second, for those of you making more than $250,000, I regret to inform you yet again: Yes, you are indeed rich—any way you slice it.”

snip

“In fact, as this chart shows, only 2.476 million U.S. households, the top 2.1 percent, had income greater than $250,000 in 2008. (About 20 percent of households make more than $100,000.)”

Not only will the ‘rich’ be taxed more but all of us will. Any way you slice it we’re all going to be paying more. Whether it be in a ‘tax’ or some other nicely named underhanded charge. This regime cannot be spending like they have and not get the money from somewhere. And if you think that only the ‘rich’ are going to be taxed, you are living in a dream world. They may start with them but they will get to you eventually.
It’s been proven that cutting taxes results in higher revenue for the feds. And it’s been said that socialism doesn’t work because they eventually run out of other people’s money.

Kalispell Native, your vitriol against people who have money and live the American Dream is sickening. That being said, not only will the Bush tax cuts soon expire, but the death tax too. Obviously, Obama and his socialist hacks need to pay for all of their out of control - record spending somehow.

I agree with you Dees.

All of our taxes will be going up to pay down the debt….that’s just as it should be.  You don’t want to pass this burden on to your children - Do you ?

Using KN’s own numbers, which I also agree with, we will not be able to raise the required revenue from less than 3% of the taxpaying population.

However, if taxes were to be raised on the rich and middleclass to approximatley 1.5% higher than under Reagan.  The debt could largely be payed down within 3-5 years.

Of course, the revenue would have to be targeted for that purpose and it would be a temporary fix only -  2 of the big 3 expenditures will still exist - driven by the wave of aging us.

Growing our way out of the debt?  No.  That will not happen.

Roark -

...and what percentage of “the death tax” applies to taxpayers ?

Any idea at all?  Besides “too much”, that is…

Vud; Don’t use a page out of the liberal handbook and put children in the mix as an excuse to raise taxes. No one wants their children to suffer.
Raising taxes really high will pay down the debt, that’s what Clinton wanted to do, but it’s not the answer. Everyone suffers then.
The answer is to NOT SPEND WHAT YOU DON’T HAVE. 
But that’s too little too late. So now what? Tax the heck out of rich people? Look at New York, that’s what they’re doing. Is it working? No.
Washington has got to stop spending. Or we’re all screwed.

Lots of comments about the Rich Tax Breaks: but in reality….due to the NFTA….thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs were & still are being shipped…out of the country. President Clinton signed the bill…and then began the exit of jobs when the companies opened up factories in Foreign countries…in the early 90’s. That pace has picked up way too much….make it overseas and ship to American. Add in the ever increasing price of fuel…..what is being left is bones to pick over…of what was a country that made goods to sell here.
I say ship the CEO & COO to a foreign country and keep the factory jobs here. Example….our garbage is shipped to the Phillipines where it is sorted out for plastic items…old plastic grocery bags are baled & shipped to China….where they are melted down & made into toys….that you buy at Wal-Mart each day..and what is left is low paying service jobs.

This is just getting worse….high deficits, low paying service jobs, high living expenses, little or no future for your kids, high birth rates & crime and drugs used to escape the reality of NO JOBS HERE…..Heck lets all get on welfare and not work anymore.

Tax all imports from China, India, Sri Lanka, Mexico, and other countries where the hourly wage is $0.75 an hour. How many of you would work for 75 cents an hour today….not one of you….but, keep buying foreign made trinkets….and watch the masses go broke year after year here in the USA.

The tax base has erroded….from the loss of factories shutting down for good…and this is not stopping one bit. Made in USA….going going gone.

Oba-mao will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire for several irrational and immoral reasons. One of them is to pay for this http://www.healthtransformation.net/galleries/wallcharts/WallChart_CHTHealthReformTimeline.pdf train wreck.

The “Buy American” mantra is bases too much on emotion and not enough on solid principles. ALL things being equal (quality, service and price) I would totally support this slogan, however this is not the case. Price is the “trump card”. On the surface “Buy American” sounds patriotic but at the core its socialism. Are we to pay the American worker simply because they need a job and are American? If that’s the criteria then we should boycott any product manufactured on an assembly line or by any robotic process. Entrepreneurs that strive to be innovative, efficient and competitive should be shunned (which is of coarse is what Socialism does)!

hotfishmt; Amen. And the problem starts with the greedy politicians. As long as they get theirs they don’t care about us.
Remember the Walmart ads that touted ‘Made in America’? And then they slowly and silently slid in the chinese stuff.
And yes, Americans are guilty of buying foreign made goods. But the prices are lower and everyone is trying to stretch their money as far as they can.
And, pony, what’s wrong with supporting America? Rather send your money overseas and support their economy? Have you seen the pictures of what the oil barons of the middle east buy with your money? Gold plated everything. And you know they laugh at us.
Drill on land in America or in ANWR, the Godforsaken part of Alaska that they misrepresented as a paradise? Lord no! Can’t have that! The environmentalist nutjobs would rather have us bow down to foreign oil. Build an updated modern oil refinery? Nope, not happening. Congress and the EPA won’t allow it.
We’re being run by idiots. Vote them all out, install term limits, limit pensions and get some real Americans in office. Stop all the crooked lobbying and pork projects. Stop the ridiculous spending of money we don’t have. Hold them accountable. If you don’t live beyond your means why should they?

Dees said:

” Raising taxes really high will pay down the debt, that’s what Clinton wanted to do, but it’s not the answer.  Everyone suffers then. “


So…Raising taxes WILL pay down the debt…But it’s NOT the answer ?

Why?  Because, according to you, it’s a shared pain ?  Where ‘everyone suffers’ ?

Exactly Who DOESN’T feel the pain under your (Republican) ‘Cut the spending / Cut the taxes’ plan ?

The aforementioned Wealthiest 2%.  Thats who.


BTW Those cuts won’t happen under Republican leadership.

Oh, they may make a lot of noise about cutting descretionary spending - but that’s NOT where the problems lie.

Think Reagan, Think Bush Too - Cut taxes, & Ramp Military Spending…and, of course, ‘pay’ for it all through Massive Borrowing.

Duuuuuuude…
Class envy rears it’s ugly head again. So, as long as the rich get burned and you don’t, it’s okay to raise taxes and spend like drunk sailors?
I said raising taxes ‘really high’ makes us all suffer. Yes, we all suffer when the gov’t takes a large part of your money. Not because they gig all of us together.
I think most Americans would support a reasonable tax increase WITH A LARGE spending cut. Otherwise it’s a waste of time and money.
I don’t care who’s in power as long as they act responsibly. But expecting that from a politician is near impossible.

Deeeeeeeeeeees -

You finally admit tax increases are a good idea.  Got it.

So now the question remains…

What LARGE spendng cuts should your non-politicians make ?

Vud, maybe you can explain to us why tax increases are good?-both morally and economically. Of course, I await your response so that I may rebut your answer with the facts and truth.

Come on, stop paraphrasing. I said I think most Americans would support a reasonable tax increase. I didn’t say tax increases were good a good idea. I like keeping my money. This isn’t Washington’s money, like some politicians think.

Roark -

I think we have bored the board enough with our back and forth.

However,  Simply recall our previous postings on the subject, or…. just scroll up a few remarks IN THIS THREAD and rebut those reason’s I already gave…and don’t be afraid to answer the previous questions put to you - It shows you’re paying attention….kinda.


Dees -

Like you and I said - You support taxes increases.

CUTS ???

Most of you guys refer to the Reagan era as proof that lowering taxes is ALWAYS a good idea.  Dees - you say that Clinton had TOO high of taxes (in another blog you said “highest in history”).  both were in office for 8 years.  Here is their tax rates on the wealthy:

Reagan:
1980       70%
1981       70%
1982-1986   50%
1987       38.5%
1988       28%

Clinton:
1990       28%
91-92       31%
93-00       39.6%

So as you can see, for the first 6 years of Reagan’s term the tax rates were higher than Clinton ever got close to.  Reagan lowered taxes & increased military spending and the deficit increased, Clinton raised taxes & lowered defense spending and the deficit decreased.  Pretty simple.

Oops, Clinton wasn’t in office until 1993.  That was Bush, Sr that raised in 1991

Thanx Native -

BTW When I mentioned previously, raising taxes 1.5% above where Reagan had them I was referring to his 2nd term numbers.

Come on people, read what I write, not what you want it to say. And I never said Clinton’s were the highest in history.
No wonder you have such views…
It amazes me how in some of the most prosperous times in America we have people that can pull up stats to show how poorly we were actually doing. Wow.

Why would any of you be for raising taxes yet again? How do you manage your personal finances? You spend less then you make, now that’s simple! Why not require the politicians to live within OUR means; less you forget it’s our money they are supposed to be managing.
If your investment manager were to manage your portfolio as the Government is, you’d fire them in a heartbeat and perhaps bring them up on charges.

By DeesBull on 07-24-10

... Bill Clinton had the highest taxes ever. It was a relief to have them cut…

Amen, ponymt. The only way to prosper is to live within our means. And hold the rascals accountable.
I’m not for taxes, I just said I thought the American people would accept a ‘reasonable’ tax increase. Trouble is, they don’t know what ‘reasonable’ is. Plus I said they would have to cut spending. Can’t have both.
Native, I stand corrected, I apologize. I thought I had said ‘some of the highest’ taxes. At the time it sure felt like it. I remember the big cut in my paycheck. Ouch.
Either way, we are in a mess and I hope it goes away soon. Somehow, someway. Don’t know how.

Yes ponymt, totally agreed.  But what would you do if you had to pick up where someone else that DIDN’T understand that left off?  Someone that thought they could take in less and still spend more without consequences.

#1 - cut spending.  quit sending our American taxpayer dollars to other countries to support their governments. 
#2 - penalize companies who send their manufacturing business to foreign countries. Give a break to those who bring it back to America.
#3 - disallow any tax deductions for ALL except major medical. 
#4 - incorporate a flat tax for different levels of income.

Here is a fun little chart.  Fill it out and than check the bottom left hand corner.

http://www.mytaxburden.org/

For all of you that can’t figure out why under Obama’s plan, your taxes are much less, here is the explanation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/26118.html

Once again, Obama is fighting for the middle class.  Under his plan, taxes only go up for the top two income brackets which begin at $171,851.

#5 - stop spending our money on welfare/medicaid for illegal immigrants.
#6 - stop paying for education of illegal immigrants & their children

and finally, I would consider myself quite well off if I had an income of $250,000 a year.  I am under $40,000 with a full time job.

As soon as you accept the premise that those who have more and make more should then be taxed more, you place your own well being in jeopardy. Who and what is “well off” quickly becomes subjective. Even those who live at the poverty level are extremely wealthy when compared to our neighbors to the South, who, should then have access to and benefit from, your wealth.
  Are you not better off then they? Are they not your fellow human beings? Should you not pay more so they can have more?
If this is a good policy and principle it should be implemented no matter what. I imagine if a Government official came into your home, went through your things and began confiscating your some of your possessions because you could “afford” to give away all but one TV, cell phone or computer you might look differently at this “good” policy!

kalgal -

You could do away with all the spending cuts you chronicled and by themselves never dent the deficit.

Time for the ole shop-worn graph again…

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html

Native,
Figures don’t lie but liers figure.
In 79 the top 1% wage earners paid 19% of the tax burden.
In 2009 the top 1% paid 39% of the tax burden.
In 1979 if you made one thousand in income for the year you paid tax to the federal government.
In 2009 48% of American wage earners did not pay any federal tax.
We do not need higher taxes on the wealthy that drive jobs over seas.  We need more people to pay tax.

Bill - you are right.  And the top 5% pay for 57% of the tax burden.  You know why?  Because they control 57% of the country’s friggin money! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States

The majority of the 48% are the elderly on fixed incomes, single-moms, college students, and households that are working but earning less than $30,000 a year.  Those losers!

Favoring the rich only makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer and thus your Republican taxation agenda will only increase that 48% number and someday the top 1% will be paying 100% of the taxes.

Bill excellent point.  See how native tries to ignore the logic behind common sense.  More jobs!  He still wants his free ride.  More people need to pay taxes.  That means more jobs.  Stop focussing on the rich and focus on people working.  That is the solution rather than big brother helping. This is a very big difference in fundementals that liberals have with common folk.

How about our government & media exposing all the funds that leave this country and go to supporting the economy of other countries?  How many billions of our taxpayer dollars are sent abroad?  How about keeping that money in the USA for a few years.

How about we take care of Montanans first, then we can go outside the state if we have available.  Things would be much simple that way.  We don’t even use our own lumber today.  Or our hydropower.

MB - I really, truly could not agree more.  You also tax the folks sponging off the government and making money illigally.

Moose -

You’re mixed up with your terms - that concerns me a little -  but point taken.

If you care to learn more, follow the sepia-toned link; which I will classify as ‘interesting’.

http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/taxation.html

Doing away with Federal and State income tax makes for good discussion and campaign slogans at election time, but the reality is, is it will never happen. Don’t get me wrong; I would support a “Flat Tax” or a “Fixed Sales Tax” as I believe most Americans would, what I don’t believe is that the Government would ever allow it to happen. There are two things that once the Government has it never relinquish control of; money and power.

Hahaha Moose -

You don’t get the luxury of making up your own daffynitions for well-known terms.  You were wrong.

I also enjoyed your idea of financing my taxes on a convenient monthly plan !  Now my 10% tax will cost me 18%.

NO!!!!

Moose -

As fresh…as this…maybe…?

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/42502/

Don’t forget, payed-up members get “6 Camera Coverage” of his *Radio*  program !  YaY !

truthor - Just so you know how annoying extreme comments like that are:

“Republican party; We will do anything possible to destroy the middle class and villify those who fight oppression.”

Ha ha.  You welcome Sir Plutocracy