Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Carl on 10-14-08
Yup, just like the Nat’l “election” [already fixed]. bought and paid for. All that is left to say, [next year] is “I told ya so”.
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By Carl on 10-14-08
Remember when the U.S. used to be “democratic republic”? Now the U.S. is merely a decayed, corrupt, “dollar republic”. Still many, many good people, but it is just impossible to overcome stupidity, greed, corruption, moral decay, on such a grand scale. Standby for “wealth redistribution”.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Rod on 10-14-08
The “wealth redistribution” has already occurred. Where have you been? We saw the largest transfer of wealth here in the United States since the days of the robber barons–it all went to a handful of people who are now billionaires.
And as T. Boone Pickens says in hes advertisement, we have already seen the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world, referring of course to our continued importation of oil from the middle east.
Obama wants to correct the situation, not create it. And for the record, Ronald Regan himself said in his Tax Reform bill (1987?) that “every american needs to pay his fair share.“ In that same bill he lowered most tax rates, except for corporations, who saw a large increase, which pissed them off and they began the lobbying process that has lead to the mess we have today, which is that the average guy pays a much larger percentage then do the large corporations and anyone rich enough to buy influence on the hill and in the white house.
At least Obama is trying to address the problem.
A question for you Carl, how would you correct the current moral decay, greed and corruption you see today?
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By Carl on 10-14-08
No can do. Too far gone. “doing what is right” being Honest, etc. is ridiculed by the left loonies, talk shows, hollywood etc. Now it is the “end justifies the means” example “acorn”. etc. And… you don’t really think the federal gov’t is actually going to help you? Really? Ha.
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By Rod on 10-14-08
So instead of doing something constructive, you’re content to just sit around and complain?
Judging from the number of comments you have here on the Beacon blog, you must spend a lot of time in front of the computer. Why not find a hobby that involves going outside and getting some exercise instead of polluting your mind by watching Fox and listening to Savage.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Citizen on 10-15-08
I felt my comment on republicans deserved a home here as well. The republican party is in the throes of death. Christopher Buckley, son of the late William F. Buckley, Jr., endorsed Barack Obama and then resigned from his position as columnist for his dad’s magazine, National Review. His words echoe the feelings I and many like me have felt all year, “While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.
So, to paraphrase a real conservative, Ronald Reagan: I haven’t left the Republican Party. It left me.”
So good bye and good riddance GOP. You republican will never manage to salvage your soiled reputation. You will always have your legacy shackled to the failed and evil war in Iraq, that has cost the lives of over one million civilians and 4300 soldiers (so far), not to mention an estimated 2 trillion dollar price tag. You invaded an innocent nation under the premise that they, “might” do something. You republicans also destroyed the US dollar, with the largest expansion of the money supply in history. You encouraged the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates to 50 year lows, causing a boom in housing and the current blowback crisis that is rotting our corrupt financial system. Republicans and the evangelical right (warvangelicals) are responsible for the destruction of America and the constitution. Under YOUR president and YOUR 8 years of rule we have the suspension of habeas corpus, posse comitatus, and the issuance of the Patriot Act and now the Bailout Plan. Two MASSIVE pieces of legislation which have stripped americans of rights and wealth. You have sold your nation in a faustian deal. May the devil reap your souls and torture you “por aeternum”.
Obama will be PILING ON YOUR TAXES. That will do nothing but harm our already sick economy. There is a lot of blame to spread around on the mortgage crisis including administrations both Clinton and Bush. But our congress, democrat and republican is at fault as well. The greedy Wall Street folks behaved as expected. And you think Obama is going to change this with high taxes? Get a grip!
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By Carl on 10-17-08
True - but followers of the prophet Obama believe that if the facts do not support the theory, they must be disposed of. “Registered” Demcocrats in Ohio like “Mickey Mouse” do not concern themselves with reason.
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By Rod on 10-17-08
Carl, I see you complaining all over these blogs and making sarcastic comments. Don’t you have anything else to do? It’s easy to sit back and complain about the situation, but what have you done lately to try and make a positive difference in the world? How about volunteering locally with the election board to make sure all newly registered voters are eligible?
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By whitefishman on 10-17-08
Rod…Gee, it looks like you do a bunch of posting on this site just as Carl does. He has the right to speak up. More people should. Stepping beyond that…I am not one for high taxes. I have long believed the reason businesses in this country are taxed so high is simply that if the citizenry had to pay all the taxes directly (they absorb the business taxes in the end products and services they pay for) they would revolt. It is a method used by our government to hide from its citizens the true taxation that occurs in our country. I know this is a blanket statement and there may be some exceptions to my point of view but the fact remains we all pay for this. The government just doesn’t want you to be too aware of just how much money they take, squander, etc. Since Obama wants more money and claims it doesn’t a certain income level or below, this is disingenuous. I just can’t support that in a candidate.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Carl on 10-17-08
Thanks Whitefishman. you are exactly right. The business tax issue is rather hidden, and in all cases it is the customer or the employee who pays those taxes. For example if Walmart were to be heavily taxed, where would that be reflected? In pay and in prices. Businesses, large or small can bear only so much before jobs/customers are lost. Again, McCain is the only one out there hammering away at cutting gov’t spending.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By illustr8r on 10-17-08
Every month I pay myself a salary which as a self employed person I get whacked with Federal taxes more than most. My social security is doubled as well as medicare because I’m my own employer so I have to pay twice.
My withholding is 35%. I have to pay unemployment at the beginning of the year- about $455-which I can’t use but I have to pay it anyway.
I incorporated last year to lessen the pain a little, but only a little. I can take whatever profit I have at the end of the year and add it to our personal filing. That gets taxed at our rate instead of the standard self employment rate of 42%.
Oh, and I pay quarterly taxes to the county as well.
I don’t make the magic number of 250K = rich that O speaks about. I don’t trust the slippery slope of him being the decider of who is “rich” and who “is not rich”.
Under his plan-the sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent. Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making all small businesses (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate. A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century. (from Yahoo Business)
Scary. Why work? For every 1K I pay in taxes I want a “vote”. That way a tax paying citizen has a fighting chance against those ACORN suspect voters.
And for whoever tells me do I have anything better to do with my time than post to to the Beacon? I’m a digital illustrator and I work on the computer, 14-16 hour days. I like to take breaks once in awhile…
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Carl on 10-17-08
After B.O. is elected, maybe we should start hiding our income by going to the barter system? Get paid in chickens rather than dollars? Or, cash only, no receipts? Who knows, if it gets bad enough, might be down to a bag of rice for a day’s job. Actually, we’d be better off with a national sales tax and do away with the income tax entirely. Buy big - pay tax big. know when you decide to buy how much tax you will pay.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By S.O.S. on 10-17-08
After McCain gets elected and follows the tired path of the republicans by “cutting taxes” (which only the wealthy end up profiting from), the dollar will continue its slide and you will need a whellbarrow to carry enough dollars to buy a single chicken.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By whitefishman on 10-18-08
S.O.S.: ALL of them want to spend our money. Obama will PILE ON THE TAXES on ALL OF US who pay taxes.
Illustr8r: People who work a job and get a pay stub generally know little about just how much the government is in our pocketbooks. Keep educating them!
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Carl on 10-18-08
We need to cut spending for anything that is not absolutely necessary. Same as our family budget, if something is not a necessity, we won’t spend money for it. Our gov’ts at every level need to evaluate what is necessary versus what is superfluous.
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Rod on 10-18-08
Carl, are you voting republican? The reason I ask is they have controlled the federal congress and senate since Newt Gindgrich’s “republican revolution” that was supposed to cut spending, reduce government programs, etc. It didn’t happen under their watch. What makes you think they will do it now?
Beacon Readers Rated This Comment:
By Carl on 10-18-08
I don’t know that they will. But even during the last “debate” It was pointed out by the moderator that Obama’s plans called for a greater increase in Gov’t spending than McCain’s plans. Quite frankly, I’m very nervous about having a President, a Senate and House of Reps all controlled by the same party. Obama has several good ideas, as does McCain, but I don’t see Obama saying anything about “cutting spending”. That and the now infamous “spreading the wealth around” response is worrisome. As for who I will vote for? I’m not sure. It’s kind of like trying to figure out who will do the least damage? [yes, I am cynical about the odds of the feds “doing good”.] given Montana’s lack of electoral votes, more of my attention is focused on state and local issues.
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Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By Carl on 10-14-08
Yup, just like the Nat’l “election” [already fixed]. bought and paid for. All that is left to say, [next year] is “I told ya so”.
By Carl on 10-14-08
Remember when the U.S. used to be “democratic republic”? Now the U.S. is merely a decayed, corrupt, “dollar republic”. Still many, many good people, but it is just impossible to overcome stupidity, greed, corruption, moral decay, on such a grand scale. Standby for “wealth redistribution”.
By Rod on 10-14-08
The “wealth redistribution” has already occurred. Where have you been? We saw the largest transfer of wealth here in the United States since the days of the robber barons–it all went to a handful of people who are now billionaires.
And as T. Boone Pickens says in hes advertisement, we have already seen the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world, referring of course to our continued importation of oil from the middle east.
Obama wants to correct the situation, not create it. And for the record, Ronald Regan himself said in his Tax Reform bill (1987?) that “every american needs to pay his fair share.“ In that same bill he lowered most tax rates, except for corporations, who saw a large increase, which pissed them off and they began the lobbying process that has lead to the mess we have today, which is that the average guy pays a much larger percentage then do the large corporations and anyone rich enough to buy influence on the hill and in the white house.
At least Obama is trying to address the problem.
A question for you Carl, how would you correct the current moral decay, greed and corruption you see today?
By Carl on 10-14-08
No can do. Too far gone. “doing what is right” being Honest, etc. is ridiculed by the left loonies, talk shows, hollywood etc. Now it is the “end justifies the means” example “acorn”. etc. And… you don’t really think the federal gov’t is actually going to help you? Really? Ha.
By Rod on 10-14-08
So instead of doing something constructive, you’re content to just sit around and complain?
Judging from the number of comments you have here on the Beacon blog, you must spend a lot of time in front of the computer. Why not find a hobby that involves going outside and getting some exercise instead of polluting your mind by watching Fox and listening to Savage.
By Citizen on 10-15-08
I felt my comment on republicans deserved a home here as well. The republican party is in the throes of death. Christopher Buckley, son of the late William F. Buckley, Jr., endorsed Barack Obama and then resigned from his position as columnist for his dad’s magazine, National Review. His words echoe the feelings I and many like me have felt all year, “While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.
So, to paraphrase a real conservative, Ronald Reagan: I haven’t left the Republican Party. It left me.”
So good bye and good riddance GOP. You republican will never manage to salvage your soiled reputation. You will always have your legacy shackled to the failed and evil war in Iraq, that has cost the lives of over one million civilians and 4300 soldiers (so far), not to mention an estimated 2 trillion dollar price tag. You invaded an innocent nation under the premise that they, “might” do something. You republicans also destroyed the US dollar, with the largest expansion of the money supply in history. You encouraged the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates to 50 year lows, causing a boom in housing and the current blowback crisis that is rotting our corrupt financial system. Republicans and the evangelical right (warvangelicals) are responsible for the destruction of America and the constitution. Under YOUR president and YOUR 8 years of rule we have the suspension of habeas corpus, posse comitatus, and the issuance of the Patriot Act and now the Bailout Plan. Two MASSIVE pieces of legislation which have stripped americans of rights and wealth. You have sold your nation in a faustian deal. May the devil reap your souls and torture you “por aeternum”.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13592
By whitefishman on 10-17-08
Obama will be PILING ON YOUR TAXES. That will do nothing but harm our already sick economy. There is a lot of blame to spread around on the mortgage crisis including administrations both Clinton and Bush. But our congress, democrat and republican is at fault as well. The greedy Wall Street folks behaved as expected. And you think Obama is going to change this with high taxes? Get a grip!
By Carl on 10-17-08
True - but followers of the prophet Obama believe that if the facts do not support the theory, they must be disposed of. “Registered” Demcocrats in Ohio like “Mickey Mouse” do not concern themselves with reason.
By Rod on 10-17-08
Carl, I see you complaining all over these blogs and making sarcastic comments. Don’t you have anything else to do? It’s easy to sit back and complain about the situation, but what have you done lately to try and make a positive difference in the world? How about volunteering locally with the election board to make sure all newly registered voters are eligible?
By whitefishman on 10-17-08
Rod…Gee, it looks like you do a bunch of posting on this site just as Carl does. He has the right to speak up. More people should. Stepping beyond that…I am not one for high taxes. I have long believed the reason businesses in this country are taxed so high is simply that if the citizenry had to pay all the taxes directly (they absorb the business taxes in the end products and services they pay for) they would revolt. It is a method used by our government to hide from its citizens the true taxation that occurs in our country. I know this is a blanket statement and there may be some exceptions to my point of view but the fact remains we all pay for this. The government just doesn’t want you to be too aware of just how much money they take, squander, etc. Since Obama wants more money and claims it doesn’t a certain income level or below, this is disingenuous. I just can’t support that in a candidate.
By Carl on 10-17-08
Thanks Whitefishman. you are exactly right. The business tax issue is rather hidden, and in all cases it is the customer or the employee who pays those taxes. For example if Walmart were to be heavily taxed, where would that be reflected? In pay and in prices. Businesses, large or small can bear only so much before jobs/customers are lost. Again, McCain is the only one out there hammering away at cutting gov’t spending.
By illustr8r on 10-17-08
Every month I pay myself a salary which as a self employed person I get whacked with Federal taxes more than most. My social security is doubled as well as medicare because I’m my own employer so I have to pay twice.
My withholding is 35%. I have to pay unemployment at the beginning of the year- about $455-which I can’t use but I have to pay it anyway.
I incorporated last year to lessen the pain a little, but only a little. I can take whatever profit I have at the end of the year and add it to our personal filing. That gets taxed at our rate instead of the standard self employment rate of 42%.
Oh, and I pay quarterly taxes to the county as well.
I don’t make the magic number of 250K = rich that O speaks about. I don’t trust the slippery slope of him being the decider of who is “rich” and who “is not rich”.
Under his plan-the sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent. Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making all small businesses (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate. A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century. (from Yahoo Business)
Scary. Why work? For every 1K I pay in taxes I want a “vote”. That way a tax paying citizen has a fighting chance against those ACORN suspect voters.
And for whoever tells me do I have anything better to do with my time than post to to the Beacon? I’m a digital illustrator and I work on the computer, 14-16 hour days. I like to take breaks once in awhile…
By Carl on 10-17-08
After B.O. is elected, maybe we should start hiding our income by going to the barter system? Get paid in chickens rather than dollars? Or, cash only, no receipts? Who knows, if it gets bad enough, might be down to a bag of rice for a day’s job. Actually, we’d be better off with a national sales tax and do away with the income tax entirely. Buy big - pay tax big. know when you decide to buy how much tax you will pay.
By S.O.S. on 10-17-08
After McCain gets elected and follows the tired path of the republicans by “cutting taxes” (which only the wealthy end up profiting from), the dollar will continue its slide and you will need a whellbarrow to carry enough dollars to buy a single chicken.
By whitefishman on 10-18-08
S.O.S.: ALL of them want to spend our money. Obama will PILE ON THE TAXES on ALL OF US who pay taxes.
Illustr8r: People who work a job and get a pay stub generally know little about just how much the government is in our pocketbooks. Keep educating them!
By Carl on 10-18-08
We need to cut spending for anything that is not absolutely necessary. Same as our family budget, if something is not a necessity, we won’t spend money for it. Our gov’ts at every level need to evaluate what is necessary versus what is superfluous.
By Rod on 10-18-08
Carl, are you voting republican? The reason I ask is they have controlled the federal congress and senate since Newt Gindgrich’s “republican revolution” that was supposed to cut spending, reduce government programs, etc. It didn’t happen under their watch. What makes you think they will do it now?
By Carl on 10-18-08
I don’t know that they will. But even during the last “debate” It was pointed out by the moderator that Obama’s plans called for a greater increase in Gov’t spending than McCain’s plans. Quite frankly, I’m very nervous about having a President, a Senate and House of Reps all controlled by the same party. Obama has several good ideas, as does McCain, but I don’t see Obama saying anything about “cutting spending”. That and the now infamous “spreading the wealth around” response is worrisome. As for who I will vote for? I’m not sure. It’s kind of like trying to figure out who will do the least damage? [yes, I am cynical about the odds of the feds “doing good”.] given Montana’s lack of electoral votes, more of my attention is focused on state and local issues.