Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By james on 09-23-08
47th out of 50 states…WOW! As much as Montana tries to shuck its reputation as being backwoods, this shows we’ve still have a long ways to go. I’m sure that because most of the higher paying jobs in this survey are in the bigger cities and on the east side of the state where they are drilling for oil, means our average salary in this valley has got to be even more dismal. That’s if you lucky enough to have a job.
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By JD on 09-23-08
I know five gals who make over a hundred grand a year here in Kalispell.
How do they do it? Well, three of them went to college. So that increases their chances.
No, all of them are big time go-getters. They worked hard. They showed up for work. They did their job. They stay out of the office politics.
Guess what else they all have in common? You’re not gonna believe this. They are the family breadwinners. Their husbands are the housekeepers and Mr. Moms. Their husbands all have little part time or homebased jobs, but it isn’t the priority.
Did the survey consider that so many women are single moms who really can’t hold down a good full time job because they’re trying to be a better mother than employee?
I think these two points are important to factor in.
Four of my employees are women. All of them are mothers FIRST. In other words they are absent a lot because a kid is sick. We understand. But we can’t pay them for that, can we? They have to clock out to run kids around town, or work less than full time to accomodate the kid’s schedule. Isn’t that a big factor in their paycheck?
So think about that, I’m sure it’s common enough to really sway the average income.
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By JB on 09-23-08
This just confirms what I have always known - I had to leave Montana to make anything close to a competitive salary. The only way for most Montanans to make a good living in Montana is by: (1) working for an out of state employer in Montana, or (2) own a successful business (in Montana or anywhere else in the country). Working for the federal government is working for an out of state employer.
I’m not saying it’s impossible…but it’s pretty darn close. To make anything over $40k means leaving the state for most people.
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By MOM on 09-23-08
Does it cost men as much to be a DAD first as it does a woman to be a MOM first?
MOM
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By JD on 09-23-08
Good question, MOM!
I employed a Mr. Mom last summer. He could be available on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays between 9 AM and 5 PM. How many good jobs are available on his terms? In our business, as in all seasonals, we work six days a week from 8 till whenever. Thus his weekly hours were half what they could have been, and no overtime. In his case let’s say it cost him a LOT! But he didn’t need it! His wife makes $120,000 a year… kind of unusual situation, perhaps, but suppose his wife only made $20,000 a year? They’d be hurting.
The years that my wife stayed home to raise two kids up to school age, she only worked part time from home while I put in 50 to 60 hours a week in the construction field. For $50,000 a year. It worked okay but I wasn’t a DAD first, as you put it.
So I personally don’t know. Somebody jump in and answer MOM’s question, please!
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By JB on 09-23-08
JD makes a good point about education level. That does make a significant difference salary wise. Someone working at a retail store with a high school diploma would have a lower salary versus someone with a college degree working as a civil engineer, for example. It also depends on where you live in Montana - the average salary in Kalispell would certainly be lower than a larger Montana city like Billings or Great Falls, where there are more and better opportunities for higher paying jobs as a function of population. It’s simple numbers in that case as well.
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By Kane on 09-23-08
Montana is a great state that we all PAY to live in. We could all make more elsewhere. This state will always lose the more qualified and intelligent employees to states who pay more. This is a rule and law, like osmosis. Just as in osmosis, particles from an area of higher concentration flow into areas of lesser concentration, so do employees move from areas of more poverty to areas of less poverty. Montana will always be poorer. The funny part is that this is a fiscally conservative state with republicans all over and yet it consumes $1.00 in federal aide for every .50 cents it pays in taxes. This state is mostly free loaders on medicare and medicaid. Hopefully the economy collapses to the point where all the free loaders starve or migrate to a socialist state that will continue to give them bread and circuses.
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By JB on 09-24-08
I thought Oregon was the welfare state…hmmm…
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By JMO on 09-25-08
I was meeting a friend for lunch the other day who works at Welfare Office. As I was waiting I was amazed at all the people coming in for their food stamps etc. Lots of 18-25 yr olds. Most with multiple kids. Lots of people who looked like they could get a job easily. Most had cell phones and were yaking on them in the parking lot. Alot of them had better cars than me. If they can talk on a cell phone they can answer a phone at work. Give them birth control info and get all these people jobs.
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By StewieGriffin on 09-25-08
Hey, get off the internet & get back to work! There’s alot of people on welfare depending on you!
</sarcasamOff>
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By JB on 09-25-08
But Stewie, this is my work…LOL…and I can see that it is your work, too…:)
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By JD on 09-25-08
JMO, the folks you saw were probably doing what they were raised to do.
When I become President things will be different. There will be no unemployment, nor welfare.
It was interesting, early last summer when we put the word out that we needed to put a crew together, nobody showed up. However starting two weeks ago we’re flooded with apps.
“The work season is over, dudes.“
Aha. There is the problem. Work is very seasonal here. We try to spread it out as long as we can, and we even make work in the winter to keep our key people employed year around.. It’s really, really hard to do. Especially when you get #### that milks you all winter and then quits in the spring.
Things are tough here, always were and always will be. It is hard to survive, but if you won’t or can’t work hard your boss won’t be too inclined to keep you. Good workers impress me, we’ll take care of them the best we can.
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Comments on: The Last Best Place to Work
Let’s be civil. The Flathead Beacon encourages vigorous discussion and lively debate, but we will delete comments that attack other readers, make accusations we can’t verify, stray too far off topic, criticize local businesses (call them if you have a problem), convict someone of a crime, use profanity or are simply judged to be in bad taste. We don’t always have someone moderating comments, so we ask for your help: If you see a comment that violates these ground rules, or you simply deem it offensive, please e-mail editor [at] flatheadbeacon.com. The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.
By james on 09-23-08
47th out of 50 states…WOW! As much as Montana tries to shuck its reputation as being backwoods, this shows we’ve still have a long ways to go. I’m sure that because most of the higher paying jobs in this survey are in the bigger cities and on the east side of the state where they are drilling for oil, means our average salary in this valley has got to be even more dismal. That’s if you lucky enough to have a job.
By JD on 09-23-08
I know five gals who make over a hundred grand a year here in Kalispell.
How do they do it? Well, three of them went to college. So that increases their chances.
No, all of them are big time go-getters. They worked hard. They showed up for work. They did their job. They stay out of the office politics.
Guess what else they all have in common? You’re not gonna believe this. They are the family breadwinners. Their husbands are the housekeepers and Mr. Moms. Their husbands all have little part time or homebased jobs, but it isn’t the priority.
Did the survey consider that so many women are single moms who really can’t hold down a good full time job because they’re trying to be a better mother than employee?
I think these two points are important to factor in.
Four of my employees are women. All of them are mothers FIRST. In other words they are absent a lot because a kid is sick. We understand. But we can’t pay them for that, can we? They have to clock out to run kids around town, or work less than full time to accomodate the kid’s schedule. Isn’t that a big factor in their paycheck?
So think about that, I’m sure it’s common enough to really sway the average income.
By JB on 09-23-08
This just confirms what I have always known - I had to leave Montana to make anything close to a competitive salary. The only way for most Montanans to make a good living in Montana is by: (1) working for an out of state employer in Montana, or (2) own a successful business (in Montana or anywhere else in the country). Working for the federal government is working for an out of state employer.
I’m not saying it’s impossible…but it’s pretty darn close. To make anything over $40k means leaving the state for most people.
By MOM on 09-23-08
Does it cost men as much to be a DAD first as it does a woman to be a MOM first?
MOM
By JD on 09-23-08
Good question, MOM!
I employed a Mr. Mom last summer. He could be available on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays between 9 AM and 5 PM. How many good jobs are available on his terms? In our business, as in all seasonals, we work six days a week from 8 till whenever. Thus his weekly hours were half what they could have been, and no overtime. In his case let’s say it cost him a LOT! But he didn’t need it! His wife makes $120,000 a year… kind of unusual situation, perhaps, but suppose his wife only made $20,000 a year? They’d be hurting.
The years that my wife stayed home to raise two kids up to school age, she only worked part time from home while I put in 50 to 60 hours a week in the construction field. For $50,000 a year. It worked okay but I wasn’t a DAD first, as you put it.
So I personally don’t know. Somebody jump in and answer MOM’s question, please!
By JB on 09-23-08
JD makes a good point about education level. That does make a significant difference salary wise. Someone working at a retail store with a high school diploma would have a lower salary versus someone with a college degree working as a civil engineer, for example. It also depends on where you live in Montana - the average salary in Kalispell would certainly be lower than a larger Montana city like Billings or Great Falls, where there are more and better opportunities for higher paying jobs as a function of population. It’s simple numbers in that case as well.
By Kane on 09-23-08
Montana is a great state that we all PAY to live in. We could all make more elsewhere. This state will always lose the more qualified and intelligent employees to states who pay more. This is a rule and law, like osmosis. Just as in osmosis, particles from an area of higher concentration flow into areas of lesser concentration, so do employees move from areas of more poverty to areas of less poverty. Montana will always be poorer. The funny part is that this is a fiscally conservative state with republicans all over and yet it consumes $1.00 in federal aide for every .50 cents it pays in taxes. This state is mostly free loaders on medicare and medicaid. Hopefully the economy collapses to the point where all the free loaders starve or migrate to a socialist state that will continue to give them bread and circuses.
By JB on 09-24-08
I thought Oregon was the welfare state…hmmm…
By JMO on 09-25-08
I was meeting a friend for lunch the other day who works at Welfare Office. As I was waiting I was amazed at all the people coming in for their food stamps etc. Lots of 18-25 yr olds. Most with multiple kids. Lots of people who looked like they could get a job easily. Most had cell phones and were yaking on them in the parking lot. Alot of them had better cars than me. If they can talk on a cell phone they can answer a phone at work. Give them birth control info and get all these people jobs.
By StewieGriffin on 09-25-08
Hey, get off the internet & get back to work! There’s alot of people on welfare depending on you!
</sarcasamOff>
By JB on 09-25-08
But Stewie, this is my work…LOL…and I can see that it is your work, too…:)
By JD on 09-25-08
JMO, the folks you saw were probably doing what they were raised to do.
When I become President things will be different. There will be no unemployment, nor welfare.
It was interesting, early last summer when we put the word out that we needed to put a crew together, nobody showed up. However starting two weeks ago we’re flooded with apps.
“The work season is over, dudes.“
Aha. There is the problem. Work is very seasonal here. We try to spread it out as long as we can, and we even make work in the winter to keep our key people employed year around.. It’s really, really hard to do. Especially when you get #### that milks you all winter and then quits in the spring.
Things are tough here, always were and always will be. It is hard to survive, but if you won’t or can’t work hard your boss won’t be too inclined to keep you. Good workers impress me, we’ll take care of them the best we can.