Comments on: Without Home in Zoo, Mountain Lion is Killed
By Now you know more about slobs on 04-22-09
Poor thing never learned how to be a cat, possibly lost it’s mom to a “cat hunter”. You know, the ones that use GPS tracking devices strapped to the hounds to do the chase work so the hunters can sit in the car until the cat’s in a tree, exausted. Then they go shoot it out of the tree. Great sport by great men.
Ask the machismoid trapper dude from last week’s Beacon where the cats went.
By T on 04-22-09
“so FWP policy prohibits relocating captured lions into occupied lion habitat.”
So it is better for the lion to have it killed? Why does the policy prohibit this?
By Barbara Borah on 04-22-09
This has to stop! The cat was not hurting anyone! Stopkilling our wildlife!
By cheryl tuller on 04-22-09
this is especially egregious since The Wildcat Sanctuary (Minnesota) was in contact with the holding facility in Montana and offered to provide a lifetime home for the cougar and WildCat Haven, a sanctuary in Oregon, was willing to pick up and transport the cat to Minnesota at their cost. So very sad, indeed, and not necessary.
By Anthony G on 04-22-09
I’ve always thought Montana was a wildlife friendly state. Game and Fish officials kill a mountain lion because no sanctuaries or zoos have room for him, yet others who comment on this report state otherwise.
I personally agree with Cheryl Tuller, I’m sure there were places where this animal could have stayed safely. Even more so, why not return him to the wild where he belongs? He was doubtfully humanly imprinted, just lost. Complete BS. Why work for this animal “preservation” department if you’re just going to do what it was established for in the first place??
By Barbara on 04-23-09
If anyone wants to write a personal comment to game and fishofficials that info can be found @ www.fwp.mt.gov.
I just sent an protest email to Mr. Farley. It’s just not fair
animals can’t speak for themselves so it’s up to us to do so.
By Freedom on 04-23-09
What did you all expect? This is Montana. We allow trapping of our wild animals and our hunters have no problem with out of season killing. We are on the verge of having a horse SLAUGHTERHOUSE in our state. We almost had guns in our national parks and I can tell you there is no law to stop guns in our state and county parks (I have seen them). We ruined our rivers which stopped the salmon which nearly eliminated the Eagles. So why would you be surprised that our idiot government would give us this kind of excuse to kill one of our great natural predators, that we NEED to control the deer population. Oh, I forgot, we have hunters to do that don’t we so the hell with nature!
By Barb on 04-23-09
Hi Freedom:
If you really believe in freedom for all animals, contact your
state senator, he seems to be willing to help. The government
needs to hear from people like you. You can make a change
for the animals.
You can go to google and put in U. S. Senator Jon Tester. There is an email address for him, there you can tell Mr. Tester how you feel about slaughtering horses, it is a terrible thing. I am not a residence of your state so I doubt if he would listen to me.
By Robin Parks on 04-23-09
I’m in San Diego and I’m a field volunteer for the Mountain Lion Foundation in California. I’ll restrain myself and try not to start cursing here: What happened to this cat is very typical of what happens in many states. F&G departments are, for the most part, simply not interested in dealing with a wayward cat. It is just too easy, on so many levels, to kill the cat and be done with it, and then give the public a bunch of non-sense justification as to why it had to be done. Sadly, many vets who work with F&G departments don’t have the spine to refuse to kill an animal whose only crime may have been that it climbed somebody’s tree. F&G departments know they may catch some public heat over the matter, but no one will take them to court. In states like Montana, where the hunter-culture (you know, men out at night, uh, bonding with each other by killing things) is so strong, F&G is even less willing to find some other solution.I really hope that in this case F&G didn’t kill the cat with two facilities volunteering to relocate or give it a home, but….I expect that to turn out to be the truth.
Here in California, we are slowly, slowly making some progress on this front….in part by getting animal support groups and local law enforcement agencies to keep F&G out of the loop whenever possible. It’s an up-hill battle…all the way.
As “Barbara” recommended above, I’ll be sending a zinger email to the Montana F&G. Now and then…not often, but now and then, such email has an effect.
By Barbara on 04-23-09
Hi Robin:
I am a member of the Mountain Lion Foundation as well.
I agree, F & G departments don’t want to bothered with the animals so they kill them
I wish I was closer, I know I could help them more than what
I do now.
Barb/Chicago
By Kieth on 04-23-09
Comments like Robin’s illustrate how disconnected mountain lion advocates are from reality. First, there is a finite amount of lion habitat available while mountain lions breed every year increasing their populations with nowhere for the excess animals to go. Some states have hunting season that reduce this pressure while states like California run them over with cars or kill them when they eat dogs and goats.
Secondly, Robin and her MLF friends help change the laws in CA to protect mountain lions where only Fish & Game can take them alive (in a state where it is illegal to relocate wildlife) and now she and her cat lovers want to conspire to “keep F & G out of the loop”. This is how to make a misdemeanor a felony – conspire.
Lastly, it is a tooth and claw blood bath in the natural world where territorial mountain lions fight to the death and males will eat their own young. Is this where you want to relocate the lion to? Well how about one of the cat rescue facilities where 50 animals are housed in small cages on a 8 acre lot? That is a humane solution for an animal that wanders over 40-200 sq. mi..
By Eric on 04-23-09
Kieth or is it Keith…we should pay attention to someone who cannot spell their own name?
By Barbara on 04-23-09
Hi:
I am Robin’s friend if you would have read my e-mail you would have noticed I am not in CA. I can’t do anything to change their laws. If you feel by keeping Mountian Lions alive is inhumane why don’t you do something to help them. What about your horseslaughter bill?
By Kieth on 04-23-09
Eric: it’s a derivation for KIEran THomas; I get that a lot. I guess we’ re all not Tom, Dich and Hairy.
Barbara: if you had read my e-mail you would have noticed that it was about Robin’s comments (.Comments like Robin’s…) Thanks for demonstrating the disconnect.
By Freedom on 04-23-09
I have written to everyone (more than once) about the slaughterhouse and it is still on the governor’s desk!!! This state already has many sad historic legacies. The tough macho Old Country Boys that pack guns and have nearly wiped out many species don’t have a problem with that. I love this state and you used to see lots of wild (natural) animals but not any more. We have plenty of deer but that’s because we kill the natural predators that WE are afraid of or that THREATEN our cattle or whatever. To say that we cannot relocate a lion is ridiculous! This is an excuse and our F&G and other government officials always need excuses to rob our country of it’s natural resources. Montana has proven to be a backward state of brutality. The Great White Hunters want it to stay that way and I am sure with lots of money flying in from the NRA it will for awhile. That is until those of us in this country that are sick and tired of the killing, whether animals or people, stand up and say ENOUGH!!!
By Get a clue on 04-23-09
Freedom-I think you need to understand that this cougar was old (about 22) and they didn’t want to release it into another yournger cougars territory for fear it would end up fighting for territory and lose. I don’t agree with it either wether it’s a wold, cougar or another animal), but sometimes you need to do what is best for the animal. At that age it wouldn’t do very well in a zoo or rescue group and I don’t think that there is anyone out there that would want to see it ripped to shreds by a younger male and killed. I doubt you have ever seen a mountain lion fight to the death with another. It is an unbelievably evil sight and I don’t care to see another one. This cougar was humanely euthanized and that is a much better way to go rather than by claws or teeth. I am an animal lover also, but you still have to think about the animals future and what will happen to it in the future and the quality of life. It very well may have been in the tree in town becuase it was chased out of it’s territory.
By Barb on 04-23-09
Wow! 22 years old, I didn’t know they could live that long.
By Robin Parks on 04-23-09
Update to earlier post & Kieth: These chatfights are worthless, but: You threw down, buddy, so let me return fire: I’m a guy, Keith, w/high testosterone like you, w/a g/f younger than yours, and had a 25 yr career in federal law enforcement, so please spare me the attitude & legal lectures. Now that we’ve pee’d in each other’s corner, and I’ve shown you my gun is bigger than yours, let’s get to the point.
Apparently, this cat could have been provided a home in Minnesota or elsewhere where it could have safely lived out a natural life, but was not given the option. I just can’t see why you balk at this possible solution. Does the cat ALWAYS have to be killed?
The “22 yrs old” must be in a follow-up article. That is extremely old for a wild cat, and I just sorta doubt it. If he was that old, and 120lbs, he was doing pretty good.
Yup, it is possible he was chased out by a younger male and had no where else to go. Also possible he just got a bit beyond his normal perimeter. Either way, it’s still a shame to have killed him when he might have had a place to go, at no charge to Montana tax payers.
Yes, I’m in California, so ya got me there, buddy. That said, we are making progress. In recent months, there have been 2 cases where F&G (reluctantly) didn’t kill cats, but released them to animal sanctuaries. Some sheriff’s offices just don’t deal with F&G.
The problem is not “finite” habitat, it’s “dwindling” habitat. As we keep taking land, we put more pressure on an apex predator that needs to be in our environment. There absolutely will be more cat-human encouters, and there SOMEtimes are other options than “the .223 solution”.
I could go on, but only allowed 3K characters.
Robin Parks
By Barb on 04-23-09
Robin, what is going on in CA that they have to take awaythe habitat that the lions have. I haven’t been CA in about 15
years. I have read that some of them have been totally seperated from other lions because of highways etc.
By Robin Parks on 04-23-09
Barb,Well, it’s just continuing development and urban sprawl and such that is putting the pressure on cats. With every big condo development or whatever, it takes more land away from normal cougar territories. It is almost a routine occurrence in some areas here for cats to show up in neighboorhood, swimming pools, or chicken coops (as in Fallbrook, near here, about a months ago…in that case F&G just opened the coop door, stood back so the cat could go leave, and it walked out on it’s own and left..amazing).
There is some effort now in California to preserve more and more lands, and also to preserve or establish more “wildlife corridors” so the cats can safely go under highways or whatever and go about their business without getting hit by a car or shot by some Billy Bob from a pick-up who wants to protect chill’un and women folks from viscous cougars.
By Barb on 04-23-09
When the cat left the chicken coop it didn’t hurt anyone either.It could have turned around and attacked F&G. They, have to give the animal a chance to escape but, from what you said there is no place for them to escape to. Very sad.
Did they ever give them the 375 sq miles on the Tejon Ranch?
By cheryl tuller on 04-23-09
Just for further clarification, WildCat Haven (Oregon) and The Wildcat Sanctuary (Minnesota) contacted Patti Sowka, at the holding facility in Montana and she was as excited as we were to be able to save this cat. She then contacted Fish and Wildlife with the offer and Fish and Wildlife responded that they would instead, take the cat to MN themselves. Shortly after that, Patti received a call that Fish and Wildlife had, instead of following though with their plan or with our plan, euthanized the cat. And just as an fyi, The Wildcat Sanctuary is one of the best sanctuaries in the nation. With spacious enclosures, up to 10,000 sq. ft. filled with trees, grass and all sorts of enrichment, the animals that live there are given a wonderful lifetime home complete with excellent vet care, the proper diet and a chance live in a safe, peaceful habitat. To suggest that killing the cat instead of allowing it to live at an accredited sanctuary that is not open to the public, which simply exists as a humane alternative for wildcats that have no where else to go is ridiculous in my view.
Cheryl Tuller
Co-Founder WildCat Haven
By Freedom on 04-23-09
ok guys, HERE’S THE REAL SCOOP!!! Get-a-clue and Kieth:you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. This was a THREE YEAR OLD CAT that was in a tree, shot by a tranquilizer and THEN BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT FIND A DAMN ZOO (accredited by the American Zoological Society) to take the cat they killed it! DON’T BELIEVE ME? Call them and ask, I just did! Because the sanctuaries were not “accredited” they killed the cat. Simple as that. The phone number for this information is 406-752-5501. I am sure they would love to hear from you too. They certainly heard from me!!! And Robin, bravo! I hope you followup with a phone call too! All of you!
By me on 04-23-09
Mr. Parks,
Make note that Columbia Falls is not an a vastly expanding urban corridor with condos popping up everywhere. Its a small town of 4500 people adjacent to vast wilderness areas and has a river corridor going through it. Because of this, wild animals come into town on a regular basis. Likewise, mtn lions take dogs and other pets along the town’s perimeter with regularity. Its part and parcel of living in a rural environment.
Further, “taking land” from the cats’ habitat is rather difficult in a county where well over 90% of the acreage is owned by the city, county, state or feds. All that public land is part of the attraction here, quite frankly.
The MT F&G officer for this part of the county has a huge territory to cover. He is a good, dedicated man and not the type to discard animals for his entertainment (note: he is not mentioned in the article).
Smearing him and every hunter in MT (no, Im not one of them) with passive aggressive “bonding at night” comments doesnt build credibility for your comments. Lets keep the discussion to relevant opinion and facts rather than ad hominem attacks, please.
By Freedom on 04-23-09
Now that we all know that ME knows big words (ad hominem?) we can be very impressed with his logical attitude I am sure. Just like all our government officials that try to logically circumvent the idea that there are alternatives to killing! I don’t care if they are all ‘NICE’ guys. The fact is this cat had alternatives just like the wolves and any other critter that we come up with that are fearsome to our human nature. Killing these creatures is NOT the only way to go and being accredited only means one thing: You have PAID MONEY TO THIS “ASSOCIATION” TO GET YOUR NAME ON THE LIST AND HERE IS THE LIST: http://www.aza.org/Accreditation/AccreditList/index.html
And blaming these animas for taking dogs and other pets, as to that one I have to laugh. Man’s inhumanity to our “pets” take many MORE LIVES THAN ANY WILD ANIMAL. Get real Me, your logic is ridiculous. Get the facts!
By cheryl tuller on 04-23-09
Montana Fish and Wildlife placed a cougar with The WildCat Sanctuary less than a year ago. Funny how this time they say they only place in AZA facilities. Seems their policies changes as often as the wind changes.
Ask them what the difference is between then and now . . .
Cheryl Tuller
Executive Director/WildCat Haven
By Ryan on 04-23-09
What is about the blog-o-sphere that leads commentators to name calling and accusations of sexual dysfunction and perversion? Lets stay on topic without having to hear about guys’ preoccupations about their gun size, feeling emasculated over confusion about their feminine names or their homophobic innuendo about bonding in the woods at night.
Wildlife conservation is all about the habitat - not placing aged animals in zoos. Across the west vast swaths of mountain lion habitat is permanently protected in public ownership on Forest Service, BLM and NP lands That is why they aren’t endangered. The remainder is mostly agricultural lands and fragmented in holdings within urban environments that will never be suitable for long-term conservation as lion habitat.
Unfortunately, some people get too emotional about the occasional death of a wayward mountain lion and lose site of the bigger picture. A quick search on the internet reveals that F & G agencies often capture and place mountain lions, so I question if all of this bashing is warranted. If you had a billion dollar budget where could you buy enough unoccupied habitat for all of these displaced lions that show up every year. There never seems to be a shortage of volunteer menageries to take your money/donations and confine them to cages but rarely do accredited zoos have room. So what’s the solution: get vile, insulting and homophobic on a blog.
By Robin Parks on 04-23-09
Ad hominem (is that like ad nauseum?), homophobic innuendo, feminine names, perversion, the size of men’s, uh, “guns”, emasculation, hunters’ night time “bonding” rituals…...Lordy…this has been a good chat fight. You speed the plow when there’s a bit of blood on the blade.
Barb: I don’t know the status of the Tejon Ranch thing, but I think all that got finally worked out and approved.
Ryan: My sarcasm was lost on you, but not on Kieth. I needed to get on his frequency so we could communicate. I did that, he’s a big boy, he’s smart, & will take no offense even if he doesn’t agree w/my point. Lofty academics, grand strategies & Latin expressions work for some, but biting sarcasm & bluster work better for others. You make a good point about “menageries”, but they are not all that way, really. Next time you’re in California, please take a look at Lions, Tigers & Bears in Alpine, or the PAWS Sanctuary near Sacramento.
“me”: My comments to Barb were re California, not Montana. While I’d bet my next government retirement check that many of the same factors are present in both states (we loose pets and livestock here now and too then, San Diego county is a big place), I won’t presume to know the particulars of your town.
Freedom & Cheryl: thanks for your info. I knew damn well the cat wasn’t 22. I sent an email to the state F&G Director, and will follow up with a call tomorrow. Thanx for all your efforts, Cheryl.
And, finally, I’m a just a lowly unpaid field volunteer for MLF & my comments are my own. I’ll leave grand environmental & land use strategy & the “big picture” to others who know, or think they know, what they’re doing. That said, am I emotional over the needless death of a single wayward cat taken by F&G with the agreement it was going to a sanctuary?? You’re DAMN RIGHT I am, Ryan. When all the lofty talk is done, it comes down to saving one cat at a time.
By me (again) on 04-23-09
Freedom,
Relax, have a homebrew. After that, re-read what I said.
I didnt blame the death of this cat on what mtn lions do to pets, nor did I justify it with that comment. I simply noted that cats (and other wild animals) visiting town is simply a part of living in a rural town at the edge of the wilderness. In town, any wild animal can be dangerous.
PS: “Ad hominem attacks” are out of context personal things thrown into an argument, often when there’s nothing else better to say. Prefer a more detailed definition? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
By Karen on 04-23-09
Unflippen believable the passion aroused over killing a damn cat. We killed over a million Iraqis, a bunch of Christians in Bosnia, bucket loads in Nam. We have 40 million illegals and 25 million Americans unemployed. A marxist/globalist in the White House surrounded by Zionists and fellow communists…and you moan about a CAT??? You people are freakin losers!
By woody on 04-23-09
wow… i was reading all these posts and thinking ....is this montana? is this 2009? Where are all the racist libertarian ’ shoot to kill” gun nuts blaming obama for everything?
Thank goodness Karen didn’t let me down.
By Robin Parks on 04-23-09
Karen,
Oh, Geeeez. Well, at least your posting mentioned the word “cat”.
I was going to tease you a bit about holding on tight to your fully-auto AK47 so Obama and his jackbooted thugs can find it more easily when they come to take it away….but..nope. I’m not gonna do that.
Hey….wait a minute….is that YOU, Rush?? Are you ranting your delusions under pseudonym…again??? You rascal you.
Ok, guys. That’s a wrap for me. My comments are now bringing in the fringe groups, and it’s important the discussion stay on point, no matter what the views expressed. I’ll move on. Isn’t it great that we live in American where even folks like Karen can let go and say what’s on our minds??
Robin Parks
By woody on 04-23-09
hey Robin the groups that really, really scare the montana militia types are the Conservation Corp and Teach for America and Americorp. It gets them quaking in their boots at the thought of an extra head start teacher or an extra trail crew. It’s why they need 10k bullets. AND then they wonder why there are no bullets in the stores.
By Kieth on 04-23-09
Poor Robin the girlyman is sensitive and doesn’t like criticism.
I have your frequency right here. No self-respecting peace officer would whine like you, therefore, you must either be a security guard or a fed.
Get over it. The lion is dead. Now go clean you cat box.
By Barbara on 04-24-09
Keith:
If you don’t like what is being said about killing a helpless animal move on to something else. The title of the article
posted in The Flathead Beacon was about the death of a
cougar. It is something that happens more than once in
awhile, it is a ongoing thing, that has to be stopped!
By Freedom on 04-24-09
It is sad but true that KIEth and Karen and Me are perfect examples of the lack of intelligence in our country. They spit out their venom to instill their superiority. Those of us that CARE that ONE cat is the symbol of our inhumanity and mindless dumping of our natural resources are torn down by these people and their (again) mindless remarks. The CAT is a symbol of all that is wrong in this world. The CAT is a symbol of the millions of animals and HUMANS that have been butchered in this world for convenience, money and oil. The CAT is an ugly symbol that RIGHT HERE IN MONTANA and in the other states in this great country, we are willing to forgo sensibilities for convenience. The CAT is a symbol of the destruction of our environment! To all of you that cannot comprehend this I suggest you move to China or perhaps another one of the middle eastern countries where you will find you do NOT have the right to speak your mind, especially you Karen. I do not think you would appreciate living in the Sudan or Saudi Arabia for example. By the way, why didn’t we take parts of this animal and sell them to the middle east like they do with shark fin. Now there’s a good one. Look up the number of shark that have been killed (left to die) after taking the fins ONLY! Nice world! Oh yeah, forgot, in Oregon years ago (1995 I think) I ran into some people that had bought a mountain lion cub (don’t know where or how) and they kept it for awhile until it got too big (not a cute little kitten any more) and they were going to give it away (don’t remember to who) and they were TRANSPORTING THE CAT IN THE BACK OF A PICKUP TRUCK, IT FELL OUT, AND WAS KILLED. Good one huh folks? There is your example of the massive stupidity in this country and others. However, America has NO EXCUSE. None of us has any excuses for this kind of behavior period!!! We are becoming unconcious!
By sophie on 04-24-09
well said freedom - but you know that the angry gun-lovers will come in here and say you hate America because you want a more humane and just world. AND they do not want that. They love pain and suffering -by others that is.
By Barb on 04-24-09
Freedom you are correct! I receive sooo many e-newslettersfrom organizations like the Humane Society with photos of
abused animals. The one of Honey really broke my heart
a skinny dog with ribs showing, and traces of having had her
mouth tapped shut. Terrible, she is a beautiful dog!
By mitch on 04-24-09
I just sent off an email voicing my concern over this unacceptable killing. I appreciate the poster from above furnishing the address, and would like to post it again for anyone wishing to contact them. The news last night said the Fish, Wildlife and Parks is being flooded with calls from concerned people. Good! As it should be.http://www.fwp.mt.
By Barbara on 04-24-09
WaaHoo!
By Freedom on 04-24-09
Well here’s another example of our great respect for our natural resource, even the woman being chased said the bear was not a serious threat, however, the driver of the car was! Wonder if they will put her down too?http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-pregnantbearcrash-042309,0,5399226.story
By Freedom on 04-24-09
Called John Fraley again F&G and he explained that the POLICY was changed in October 2008 that they will no longer use sanctuaries. If it isn’t AZA approved the animal dies period!!! There is our great government at work again.
By Barb on 04-24-09
Called Fraley, he didn’t pick up so I left him a message, with my phone number. I doubt if he will return my call. If he does I will let you know.
By Fay Burns on 04-24-09
FWP should think first - we have video proof of Erik stating that the cat was about 2 and a half years old - not too old to be relocated. We also have video proof of Erik stating that he was going to “just take him up the North Fork and turn him loose.” We also have proof that there was no crowd at all until after the ladder truck started bringing the cat down from the tree, and that “crowd” consisted of about a dozen people, including myself, Jim, and Erik and Chris of FWP, one police officer, and 3 firemen. Lies. Please contact our state reps, our governor, and everyone else you can think of. This senseless killing has got to stop.
By Fay Burns on 04-24-09
The cat was not 22 years old; that was a typo on the web site. If you read the article as published in The Hungry Horse News, you will see that he was only 2 1/2 years old. I myself can testify that he did not show signs of age, such as graying, nor was he lacking in body fat, he was well-fed, thus he was not drawn to town in search of food after a hard winter as we have seen in years past. I spent close to two hours observing this cat up close, I know what I am talking about.
By cheryl tuller on 04-24-09
Did John Fraley say that they involved AZA in their decision to change policy? This guideline was written without AZA’s agreement. In the long run, it will make AZA look bad not ODFW. Hopefully, AZA will eventually push back on these regulations.
cheryl tuller
www.wildcathaven.org
By Freedom on 04-24-09
No Cheryl, John didn’t say either way and he didn’t pick up for you because he knew who you are I bet. He does know my name now tho, so it would probably be the same if I called him back. He can’t “do anything” anyway except pass our “suggestions” along. Typical BS!!!
By Barb on 04-24-09
Hi:
Here’s another good one for Montana: Montana’s Senate Bill 185 will continue the state’s trend in making hunting cheaper and more available to residents. The current bill will reduce the cost of hunting licenses for students in hopes of increasing the number of tags sold. Earlier this year HB 74 extended the lion hunting season by giving it an archery-only season (in addition to the big game hunting months). These changes to Montana’s hunting policies are projected to bring in more than forty-thousand dollars to the state’s bank account
Archery-only season isn’t that painful? How many arrows does it take to kill a lion? $40,000.00? They just want to get rid of
the animals to make room for more development.
By Freedom on 04-25-09
Did you notice the part in that article where children with “development problems” are allowed to shoot from their cars?
By Karen on 04-25-09
Dear Freedom, you spew holiness without seeing the log in your own eye. Surely you have sinned? Have you ever fudged on your unconstitutional income tax statements? Coveted an attractive sexy bod? Ever lied? Ever taken the name of the Lord in vain? You judge me not seeing that we agree more than disagree. Yes, the world has become a wreck. Massive pollution, murder, greed, inhumanity..lack of reverence to Jesus. We are to embrace all manner of debauchery yet, who is vilified by this beast created by wealth consolidation.. by worshipers of Satan? My only point was that in relation to the human suffering, the one cat death elicited a disproportionate level of emotion. A lady bug was pestering me during my morning coffee..I plucked it off and set it a flight..I didn’t squish it. How much more value is a cougar. I would have set it free and let “nature” taken its’ course.
By Nancy on 04-25-09
Karen, I believe your hatred is out of bounds. Sweetheart take a break from your spewing of everything about the evils that prevail. You are by far the best example of evil that persists on these postings.
By Barb on 04-25-09
This is the response to the email that was sent to John Farley
Thank you for your comments on the recent mountain lion capture in Columbia Falls. Mountain lions are designated game animals in Montana. As wildlife managers, we are charged with the management of mountain lion populations and public safety issues associated with them. The following factors entered into our decision in the recent case involving the mountain lion in Columbia Falls:
· Public safety is the biggest concern and primary interest when dealing with predators including lions.
· For that reason Montana does not release mountain lions that are captured in or near communities.
· Lions that show up near communities are typically there because suitable habitat is full and they pose a human safety threat.
· FWP’s first preference in handling lions captured in or near urban areas is to offer them to American Zoological Association (AZA) accredited facilities. This is reflected in our policy updated and signed in October, 2008.
· The AZA’s standards ensure that animals will be properly cared for in the long-term.
· AZA-approved facilities are usually only interested in young lions that will adapt better to conditions that those facilities provide. Older lions are not typically candidates for those facilities.
· The decision not to use other facilities was a conscious one. Experience has shown that other facilities, including wildlife sanctuaries, often do not provide the kind of stable, long-term care that is in the best interest of the lion.
o While FWP retains ownership there have been instances where animals have been transferred from other facilities for unacceptable uses.
· Other demands on the time of FWP staff and budgets must also be considered when dealing with these situations.
FWP will continue to review the issue of facilities and standards that are acceptable for placement of lions.
Thank you again for your comments.
—-
Budgets here we go again, money is more important than a
animals life. Bottom line that’s what it is all about.
By Freedom on 04-26-09
Nancy, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you. As to Mr. Farley’s “response”, these are some of the same things he said to me but I do have some questions:1. Why the change to AZA?
2. Wildlife sanctuaries are a protection for the animal until it can be released back into the wild is that not correct?
3. Doesn’t the FWP checkup on these sanctuaries?
4. What do you mean “FWP retains ownership”? You mean you OWN THE CAT?
5. What the hell does age have to do with this cat? Wasn’t only 3 years old as you told me?
6. Why isn’t the FWP’s standards to ensure the animals will be properly cared for? Is killing the animal proper care?
7. Why do budgets have ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS?
Mr. Fraley, the FWP needs to be investigated immediately! I have asked John Tester to do that.
By Cowgirl up on 04-26-09
Sophie…plese don’t lump us gun lovers together! You do us a great disservice. I too made a phone call re. the killing of this animal…I too do not agree with the statement made re. the reason behind the killing of this animal….and I do not believe in trophy hunting.
By me on 04-26-09
Freedom, I find it interesting that you attack me, saying “They spit out their venom to instill their superiority”.
Venom? Where? I didnt say anything about killing this particular cat, nor did I attack you or your opinion about it (I havent stated one, did you notice that? Of course not). I dont own a gun and havent hunted in 40 years. The only obvious reason for your attack appears to be because I didnt jump in lock step with your opinion. I had no idea that only yesmen are welcome in the comments area.
By Karen on 04-26-09
I’m wondering if all the wonderful cougar fans will still be mourning the kitty loss when most of the fine folks of Flathead drop dead from the governments’ depopulation bio weapon deemed 30x’s more deadly than the 1918 strain (modern science you know) in the coming months? With blood and pus filled lungs I’m sure Nancy will get in the last word, eh? heh heh adios amigos
By Patti on 04-27-09
Killing of this cat is outrageous. It sickens me. Too bad they dont’t use this same tactic toward all the habitual offenders in this area. Repeat sexual offenders, DUI’s, and druggies…lets get rid of this trash…afterall what presents more of a problem here. Your 6 year old child is more likely to be raped by a repeat sexual offender or killed by a drunk driver than injured or killed by a stray mountain lion.
By Freedom on 04-27-09
Obviously, this discussion is no longer about the cat. Patti, I agree with you totally. Karen you are a very sick person. Me, I am not looking for yesmen, I am looking for civilized intelligent human beings that understand the gravity of this situation. People that know that there is something very wrong with killing this cat, trapping, and horse slaughter for money! If you cannot see these are signs of a degenerate society (as well as all that has been covered by Patti) then I am sorry for you and the others like you. Yes we have encroached and yes we have animals in our midst and yes that will continue, however, the fact that our government has opted to kill this animal for reasons of convenience says it all and this is all I have to say on the matter. It is a disgusting example of the good ole boy attitude in this state, ie., trophy hunting and trapping for money!
By Freedom on 04-27-09
This is an e-mail I got today:
The first sentence of your email is an insult to those of us who have worked long and hard for protection of our wilderness and its wildlife in Montana. Your third sentence states in part, “This lion belonged in our wilderness…” which is definitely true, but the simple truth is that it was in a residential area and posed a substantial threat to children in this urban area. How many kids must be killed before you recognize the need for control actions? Mountain lion populations are at or close to their capacity in the state and re-introducing this lion to another area means either displacing lions already there or the lion returning to where it came from, neither a satisfactory answer. No zoos would take the animal. How many will “sanctuarties” take before they say enough is enough? I believe in honest discourse but calling the commission “a disgusting sign of our times” goes over the top. The vast majority of Montanans would disagree with your assessment. Apparently you are a newcomer to the state?
Bob Ream
District 1 Commissioner.
To: FWP
you have proved again that you are incapable of handling any form of protection for our wilderness in Montana. I am appalled that you would actually kill that mountain lion in C. Falls when you had alternatives. Where do you guys get off KILLING our natural animals and allowing trappers in this valley. This lion belonged in our wilderness and could have been re-introduced in another area or as has been disclosed moved to TWO SANCTUARIES. YOU ARE TRULY A DISGUSTING SIGN OF OUR TIMES!!!
My reply today:
Do you actually believe that I and others like me have not researched this situation? This animal was caught in a tree, not putting anyone or thing at danger. This animal was 2 ½ years old (according to John Fraley). There were TWO SANCTUARIES THAT OFFERED TO TAKE THE CAT! And yes, in spite of telling people at the scene that the cat would be relocated, you killed it! Everything you say below is just BS! The cat was killed for convenience and because of BUDGET problems, which is ridiculous. If you have worked long and hard for the protection of our wildlife, then why did my dog step in a trap in a slough in MY BACK YARD? Why is TRAPPING still being allowed on public lands…yes I talked to the F&G about that one. I CANNOT LET MY DOGS RUN LOOSE ON THESE LANDS DO TO LEGAL TRAP LINES BEING SET ON THEM!!! Is that PROTECTION of wildlife? You have managed to practically eliminate Eagles in this state do to mismanagement of our rivers and lakes. Wildfires that COULD HAVE been prevented were actually allowed to burn thousands of acres with the excuses of “natural law”. I watched Glacier burn in 2003. It was preventable but was instead became an inferno!!! This cat was just an example of ridiculous beau racy in this state! I would bet you are one of the people that supports Horse Slaughter in this state also.
By Robin Parks on 04-27-09
Well…I said I wasn’t gonna get back into this (due to my earlier comments drawing in the Field & Scream folks, the anti-Obama & anti-globalists, the Montana Militia, et al), but I can’t resist:
Freedom: if you have it, could you post Mr. Ream’s email addy? I cant find him in the directory, but I have found Mr. Jim Williams (who I think was the on scene supervisor of the incident) and Mr. Jim Satterfield (a regional supervisor) and I’m trying to speak directly with one or both to get a more clearly stated justification as to why this particular cat was killed.
From what little I can gather, and from Mr. Ream’s statement above, it appears that “public safety” was as big a factor in the decision as was the alleged lack of any accredited facility which would take in the cat. ( I don’t know how hard they looked or how many places they contacted).
Now…does any one have any stats on kids killed in Montana by cougars? Mr. Ream doesn’t appear to be one to speak from the hip, but I can’t find any stats on that. In fact (and I’m pretty sure he knows this) since the 1890’s (yes, that’s 18, not 19) there have been only some 18 (yes, 18) fatalities from cougar attacks in ALL of NORTH AMERICA. Of these, according to my research, some 4 were minors. I like to have facts straight, so if any reader here can refer me to an authorative source for Mr. Reams’s comments, please let me know.
I know that all the fear and paranoia over cougars fits well with all the hunters, but I’m afraid that dog just won’t hunt. The facts don’t bear it out. If the goal here is really public safety and protecting womenfolk and chill’un, we as a society need a lot more effort against drugs, sex predators, drunk drivers, bees, pitbulls, and a host of other things which do actually kill kids.
Also, does anybody know for sure that this cat only strayed out of his normal area, and could have been chased back into it??? (F&G folks in Colorado and California have successfully done this.
Also..Mr Ream’s claims about the cougar population…well…the cougar population isn’t exploding ANYwhere, folks. The problem is that we relentlessly encroach on their territory and then we want to kill a lion when we see one.
Robin Parks
By mitch on 04-27-09
Thank you Robin. I think his remark on “The vast majority of Montanans would disagree with your assessment. Apparently you are a newcomer to the state?” was entirely inappropriate. Again he’s trying to cover his own butt by wanting us to believe “everyone else is on his side?” What the heck does being a newcomer to the state” have to do with anything.
His letter was very unprofessional.
By grannysgadgets on 04-27-09
Actually there was a 5 year old in the Evaro area ( right next to highway 93) 10 years ago or so. Was drug right out of the sand box he was playing in, and half consumed by the female cat and her cubs before they found him.My dad had a goat that was attacked ( while tied next to the house), and eatten about a week ago by a cat. The kids are not allowed outside anymore . About 12 years ago he had a weanling foal attacked and his rump was shredded by a cat as well.( 3 miles from city limits, so no he is not out in the hills somewhere) It is my understanding that they are very territorial, and require a large territory at that. That being said I think that as populations increase younger ones ( or older that cannot hold their claim anymore) get pushed into populated areas, where there is not much to hunt along the lines of their natural prey. I believe there is room for the cat, but I also believe it needs to be closely monitored…...... sadder then loosing a mountain lion , is loosing a child to that horrible death !
By Freedom on 04-27-09
As to Mr. Ream, his e-mail is: bob ream [bobream@mt.net]
As to the protection of our children from wild critters, as I see it Robin is right. Our children are more and more at risk every day from human predators than they will ever be from wild animals. I am not saying it can’t happen but there again, where do they go when we are in their territory. They will go after their natural prey if it is there, however, if we are there then we become their natural prey! They have no advantage over us and will die as a result. If I go into a bear’s territory then I would expect to see a bear. If my house is built in what has always been his territory, then he will be there. Should I kill him because I AM IN HIS TERRITORY? If the cat encroached on what we consider OUR territory, where is his? What does he have left when we take it all? The lady down from me that called the trapper in didn’t want the muskrat burrowing in her bank. Where in hell is the muskrat supposed to go. This slough is his natural territory and because a stupid woman doesn’t want her bank to be part of the muskrat’s environment, she orders them killed, 13 of them. This is montana. This is the state of nature and we are killing these animals that belong here and have been here long before us. If you can not live with animals then get the hell out! There was no doubt in my mind that if the people at the site when that cat was caught KNEW what was going to happen to it, there would have been a riot!!!
By Freedom on 04-27-09
As to the protection of our children from wild critters, as I see it Robin is right. Our children are more and more at risk every day from human predators than they will ever be from wild animals. I am not saying it can’t happen but there again, where do they go when we are in their territory. They will go after their natural prey if it is there, however, if we are there then we become their natural prey! They have no advantage over us and will die as a result. If I go into a bear’s territory then I would expect to see a bear. If my house is built in what has always been his territory, then he will be there. Should I kill him because I AM IN HIS TERRITORY? If the cat encroached on what we consider OUR territory, where is his? What does he have left when we take it all? The lady down from me that called the trapper in didn’t want the muskrat burrowing in her bank. Where in hell is the muskrat supposed to go. This slough is his natural territory and because a stupid woman doesn’t want her bank to be part of the muskrat’s environment, she orders them killed, 13 of them. This is montana. This is the state of nature and we are killing these animals that belong here and have been here long before us. If you can not live with animals then get the hell out! There was no doubt in my mind that if the people at the site when that cat was caught KNEW what was going to happen to it, there would have been a riot!!!
By Freedom on 04-27-09
I have been BLOCKED BY THE BEACON FROM RELEASING REAMS E-MAIL ADDRESS.
By Freedom on 04-27-09
Send ME AN E-MAIL IF YOU WOULD LIKE HIS ADDRESS:cjrolphe@bresnan.net
By mitch on 04-27-09
Freedom, When this happened with the traps in what is basically “our” backyard, did you call the sheriff? Umm, humane society? Or ...... what? I’m trying to think of who else could put a stop to this. I remember so well when the cattle use to graze around those sloughs, now of course covered by buildings (homes I guess), but killing these muskrats is unacceptable. Not to mention the danger of the traps so close to homes, people, children, pets??? Have you written a letter to editor of Interlake? Let the rest of know who we can write to, phone, or what can be done to end this. I realize the MFWP is not in good graces on this blog right now, but I wonder if they would do anything. Is Dry Bridge Park connected to this string of sloughs?
By Freedom on 04-27-09
I called the city police because I am in the city. They came out and said the slough is in the county (I step out my back gate and am in the slough) and they would contact F&G. The traps were still there when the cop came out. By the time the F&G guy got there (afternoon of the 15th) they were gone. He said he would look into it but he also said that since the lady that owns the house called in the trapper it was probably legal. How can it be legal in public water???? Yes Dry Bridge is connected. I don’t know if they could trap there because its a county park. But I bet they could if they determined they needed to. Of course the trapper makes money on these dead animals too. He’s been trapping around here a long time. I was just flabbergasted!!! I would imagine the county commissioners would be a start:bob ream [bobream@mt.net]
Lets try this one again…hahahahha.
By Freedom on 04-27-09
I called the city police because I am in the city. They came out and said the slough is in the county (I step out my back gate and am in the slough) and they would contact F&G. The traps were still there when the cop came out. By the time the F&G guy got there (afternoon of the 15th) they were gone. He said he would look into it but he also said that since the lady that owns the house called in the trapper it was probably legal. How can it be legal in public water???? Yes Dry Bridge is connected. I don’t know if they could trap there because its a county park. But I bet they could if they determined they needed to. Of course the trapper makes money on these dead animals too. He’s been trapping around here a long time. I was just flabbergasted!!! I would imagine the county commissioners would be a start:Nope…the beacon blocked it again. Send me an e-mail. See above.
By Muskrat Love on 04-28-09
Like the groundhog, the illegal alien, tzetze fly, coyote, cougar, le muskrat not welcome in dise parts?
By Barb on 04-28-09
Freedom, so true the ones that are suppose to protect wild animals, are the one who destroy them without a reason!
The views expressed in the comments section do not reflect those of the Beacon.