It’s really not a matter of them allowing us the right to do anything. The government is the servant of the people.

The question is are the people too lazy and too selfish to work at governing themselves?

Maybe we’re nothing more than spoiled citizens who NEED an authoritarian government to run things for us.

As alluded to earlier, it certainly seems that way some times.

...case in point…:

As for supporting a measure allowing for CGJs in Montana?

How could one POSSIBLY make an informed decision at this time with the information that has been given to us on what MIGHT be written into such a measure?

Oh, I see you want a knee-jerk, no-thought vote?

OK…No.  (Pending more specific information.)

Ha!  I think you’ve called me worse today, right?

I seriously doubt this topic was on your radar screen a week ago…but now your an expert?

Montana voters should have no illusions.  The citizen grand jury scheme is the brainchild of the ultra right wing, neocon extremists.  As described, the proposal is clearly intended to circumvent existing laws governing trial by jury, both at the grand and petit jury levels.  This is one of the most undemocratic ideas ever put forth in the state and, if you check their backgrounds, you’ll find that those pushing the scheme have links to the Freemen, the militia movement, the libertarians and the extreme right wing of the state Republican party.  This is definitely a non-starter.

Some of the Right Wingers have been Identified thanks to the Montana Human Rights Network. They have lists of Montanans.
They say it’s Montana but I think it’s New York. They have their own local supporter McAdams in Helena plus a Network of thousands across the state. They are extremely anti-right and could incite left wing extremists to frothing and hand wringing.
http://www.mhrn.org/newsarchive/fija1v6.html
http://www.mhrn.org/newsarchive/298margi.html
http://www.legalaffairs.org/printerfriendly.msp?id=231
http://www.mhrn.org/newsarchive/1101stokes.html

What are you afraid of dsrobins are you an ex federal employee maybe a forest service law enforcement officier what a joke. I love the idea. It will make the local politicians legally responsible for some of the crap they are doing. Something the court will not do.

Littlehawk, did you whine this much when Bush appointed Czars up the kazoo?  Bush had a total of 47 (FORTY SEVEN) Czars during his presidency.    Out of the 38 Czars nominated by the Obama administration, only 8 have made it through the confirmation process so far.  If you look at the history of Czars throughout the history of U.S. Presidents, GW Bush holds the record for appointing the most.

litttlehawk asked…

“Extreme Left.What rights are you so afraid you will lose”?

At this point, for me it’s more a matter of ‘the devil I know-vs-the devil I don’t’.  The current system has it’s flaws but it is still
one of the best systems man has devised for meting out justice.

I’d be interested in hearing what *specific* problems the supporters of this as-yet-unknown measure think they are going to fix with CGJs.

Is there one or two specific instance’s of laws thwarted where the CGJs would have jurisdiction you can point to?

How will the CGJs help in this matter, as you see it?

A couple of quick concerns on the Gazette article.

“Sipe…said he decided to push for the initiative because he’s unhappy with the direction of the country.”

...and…

“With the ‘political environment’ in the country going on right now, we have to open up some ideas.”

These are the kinds of sweeping generalities I was hoping NOT to see.

I understand this is exactly why you, lh, would support the measure.  I get that.  But you must realize that a fair CGJ will also be made up of people with ‘my’ mindset too.

A recent check of the title poll here shows a very even split for/against this measure.

Further, Sipe said. “There will be a substantial fiscal note (estimating costs) on counties that convene grand juries”.

You bet there will.  With an evenly divided CGJ when will the investigation(s) end?

My question is:  How active has Sipes (or you) been in the CURRENT system?

For myself, I haven’t been active at all beyond being available for jury duty…though I do enjoy that…still, hardly a stellar example of enthusiasm for civic responsibility.

Finally Sipes closes with:

“People have nothing to fear from grand juries.”

“My concept is if you keep your nose clean, we’ll never have to have a grand jury”.

To my ear (which I know is not your ear) that just sounds ominous.

dsrobins; Where are you coming from?
“... clearly intended to circumvent existing laws governing trial by jury, both at the grand and petit jury levels.  This is one of the most undemocratic ideas ....”
Haven’t you listened to any Beckman Youtubes?

LittleHawk. I was with you. Ron Paul seemed to fizzle Like Winston said to O’Brian, ” They got to you too”,
plus the media wouldn’t let any one hear his warnings about the coming economy. I would rather spend time on the Sheriffs issues.

If you are civic minded you could read about being a fully informed juror. It wouldnt suprise me to find malfeasance at any level of government. I haven’t heard a single word of assurance from them. They must be giving them to their buddies.

Billy:

Any good sources on that topic (informed juror).

There was a recent case in CO where the defendant hired a guy to pass out “infomed jury” material to people entering the courthouse…several of the jurors received and read the material and I believe a mis-trial was declared.

I’m not surprised Vud. I wouldn’t you want to disqualify yourself from the legal system because you read something I suggested. I’m not sure if the court system falls under the Constitution since there is Maritime Law. I believe our corporate being is represented in court and not a human being
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZihGvvQ-LI&feature=related

In 1215 AD, the people of England rose up and forced King John of England to sign the Magna Carta, or Magna Carta Libertatum, ie, “Great Charter of Freedoms.” The Magna Carta forced King John to agree that ordinary individuals had certain rights, that he must follow certain legal procedures, and that he was not above the law.

He was a great leader. And a conquerer but his empire grew faint. Is that right? I think he was a democrat.

There does seem to be a lot of fornicating going around these days. Of course there always was some. I guess it’s as old as men. I was reading about something the court did back in the 70’s. No fault divorce. Wrecked the marriage and family and put the women into the workplace. Head start and WIC programs followed, then abortion. Court collected child support. Put the men in their proper place. Under the jurisdiction of the court.

I read even the rich ladies are strung out on booze and dope and are also unhappy. They can’t get no…satis.faction…

10-4 good buddy. Men of the people. Also Che and Fidel I guess.

I liked JIm Bridgers self sufficiency. But the Indians had plenty to trade back then and he didn’t have to do all the cooking.

Sonny from California? Did Hunter Thompson cruise with him once.

Atilla could have but they probably stunk and he was a long way from home, anyway and didn’t they cash him out?

Life is the greatest gift. Use it or lose it.

Oer land and sea.

I saw a documentary about Robert E. Lee. He was an American Leader in my mind but there are great men in thousands of ways.

This Grand Jury Movement could roll because it is valid and the BS most everyone bought into is showing that we can not trust someone just because he has a smiley face.

I’ll do it. Have you seen this it’s a little psychoanalytical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aND3Y9bc8&feature=PlayList&p=86C7E6F8FB9598F4&index=0&playnext=1

Littlehawk probably likes the flick because John Wayne is in it.  He’s always had a crush on John Wayne.  By the way, LH, what is “heredicy”?  Do you possibly mean heredity or perhaps heresy?  We do have to give you credit for really creative if somewhat bizarre spelling.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34449813/ns/politics/  Good news!  Just in case anyone wants to update their info. 

Link LH?    says on your copy/paste it’s an advertisement.    Yay for the good guys

LH:

THUMP !

hahaha!  our side wins, as we knew it would.  Don’t worry be happy…..........and on that note have a lovely Christmas. 

my old daddy always told me never to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.  Good advise.  bye lh

Little Hawk; My old daddy didn’t know it all but he repeated this old advice to me.
“Never argue with a fool because onlookers won’t be able to tell the difference.”
Another one I heard “you can only be free if you have a gun in your hand”.
“Dont take a knife to a gun fight.”
“How can you have a revolution with out guns?”  Che in The Motorcycle Diaries.
Enjoy the seafood LittleHawk. I like em fresh.

“Never argue with a fool because onlookers won’t be able to tell the difference.“  I like that Billy.  Tis true

BTW:

I’m curious…So what’s to be gained by using the same line again?

Odd.

Actually I think it should be onlookers won’t be able to tell them apart.
Did you learn anything about the Jury Vud?
Little Hawk; What I hear is the Illuminated work the players from behind the scenes. Hitler was their boy. Albert Pike wrote the scenario for the three world wars and Israel is a set up for destruction The UN creation of Israel has been a problem since day one and will be until they leave the Palestinians’ homes. The Jews should go back to their country of origin and knock off the the phoney homeland bologna.

LittleHawk;
Gotta go but was it Prescott Bush that dug up the skull of Geronimo for the Skull and Bones frat boys?
Geronimo said he should have never surrendered. Another man of the people.

One more thing LittleHawk. I don’t think the Bushes and their kind can do their own fighting but they are good at stirring up trouble between people that have no real threat from each other. Keeps them from getting dirty. They have plenty of gold to hire mercenaries and agents provocatuer and politicians and newsmen.

Billy:

“I wouldn’t you want to disqualify yourself from the legal system because you read something I suggested.”

Wasn’t sure if I should take your advice or not…I might…?

Knowlege is power but ignorance is bliss. Good day Vud.

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